Amps for electric guitar. What to look/listen for?

[Taylorplayer]

Amps for electric guitar. What to look/listen for?

I have a Carr Mercury. Some may take issue with the price. But as of yet, no one has taken issue with its' tone or the build specs.

A low wattage tube amp can be a wonderful thing.

[TomHB]

I always have to toss in a BIG thumbs up for the little Fender Frontman II 25R. Cheap, but SF Champ-like in clean tone (I have a SF Champ and have compared them side-by-side, and it's very hard to tell the difference). Very nice spring reverb, OD channel that's usable (it takes pedals great as well) and you can record great tone straight from the headphone jack to a digital device. Sounds great at low volume, but it can roar to. It's what I use 95% of the time at home, and take along to house jams (the size and weight of a Champ). I upgraded the speaker in mine to a Ragin' Cajun, but the stock speaker isn't bad at all.

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--FEN0231502000

[fitness1]

just turn it up to 11 and let it rip....

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by fitness1

just turn it up to 11 and let it rip....

Way to go Todd!!!!!!!!!! An obvious response from an "acoustic guy"!!!!

Russ

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by Taylor007

I leaning toward something that can get decent breakup at low volume.
Good cleans are must as well.

One good thing about solid state amps is that they can do both of these.
Some others are:
They are relatively inexpensive.
The are light/easy to carry.
They don't have expensive tubes that go bad.
Direct outs.

I ask myslef this question: "Why must it be tube?"
Perhaps the concept that tube amps sound better is an old fashioned notion coming from an era when solid state technology was in it's infancy. Perhaps this notion is no longer valid in today's world.

Then there are hybrid amps: those with a tube pre-amp and solid state post amp.

I remember owning a tech21 trademark 60 and I liked it pretty good.

[skyver]

I have a Princeton Reverb reissue and a Tech 21 Trademark 30. The Princeton has the perfect sound (for me). I like reverb, and it does twangy, surfy, and can do smooth, clean jazzy sounds as well. It doesn't have a distortion channel, but a fuzz box takes care of that.

To me, the Tech 21 sounds almost as good, at a third of the price, and it does have built-in distortion. It may not sound exactly like a Marshall at full tilt, but it does a fair impression of one.

I'd recommend either amp, but if you're not exactly sure what you want, but you want an amp now, get a Roland Cube. Lots of pros use them, they're cheap, and it will make a good backup amp if you get another, fancier amp later on.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

One good thing about solid state amps is that they can do both of these.
Some others are:
They are relatively inexpensive.
The are light/easy to carry.
They don't have expensive tubes that go bad.
Direct outs.

I ask myslef this question: "Why must it be tube?"
Perhaps the concept that tube amps sound better is an old fashioned notion coming from an era when solid state technology was in it's infancy. Perhaps this notion is no longer valid in today's world.

Then there are hybrid amps: those with a tube pre-amp and solid state post amp.

I remember owning a tech21 trademark 60 and I liked it pretty good.

That's certainly not an invalid observation but to many, including myself, tube amps DO sound better. Solid state amps have come a long way with modeling, etc., but there's just something about the 'feel' and response of a tube amp that they haven't yet captured in a model. For my tastes and ears, I should say. An absolutely crappy tone to me might be the dream tone to the next guy, or vice versa. It really depends on your requirements, and an approximation of a good tube amp tone might meet those requirements.

As for the 'expensive tubes that go bad' argument, well, they're really not that expensive depending on the particular tubes and they last a long, long time (again, depending on the amp's design and type of tube used).

I'm not implying that your viewpoint is invalid but there's certainly another perspective to be considered. My opinion is only my opinion but I haven't heard a solid state/modeling amp that does it for me.

[terrapin]

At BEST a solid State amp will give you "DECENT" breakup.....Sterile, brittle BUT decent???

Tubes today are not that expensive and last a good while if not abused...

I have SO many friends who opted for Solid State as a cheap option, and were completely dissatisfied after a very short time and could almost not give away the solid state amp to buy a tube amp.

Do yourself a favor..................GO TUBE!!!

[Allman_Fan]

" . . . .tube amps DO sound better."

But don't you think it's possible that some folks have their mind already made up BEFORE they A/B them? How many have compared amps blindfolded?

Some will say that the difference between solid state and tube is even harmonics . . . don't the solid state manufactures know this? And haven't they been able to add these (and other) characteristics to emulate the tube amp?

but there's just something about the 'feel' and response of a tube amp

What is suspiciously absent (to my knowledge) is scientifically objective analysis/comparisons of particular models. Or maybe someone can point me these out to me. Has there been a recent blind, side by side comparisons like "the Pepsi Challege?"

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

[B
What is suspiciously absent (to my knowledge) is scientifically objective analysis/comparisons of particular models. Or maybe someone can point me these out to me. Has there been a recent blind, side by side comparisons like "the Pepsi Challege?"

When it comes to amps the "scientifically objective analysis/comparison" needs to be ears, not spectragraphs or computer-analysis of harmonic content...

I have participated numerous times in blind tests of tube amp vs. solid state. Same guitars, same wattage, same recording technique, same songs and have yet to be fooled into hearing which amp was which.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

" . . . .tube amps DO sound better."

But don't you think it's possible that some folks have their mind already made up BEFORE they A/B them? How many have compared amps blindfolded?

Some will say that the difference between solid state and tube is even harmonics . . . don't the solid state manufactures know this? And haven't they been able to add these (and other) characteristics to emulate the tube amp?

but there's just something about the 'feel' and response of a tube amp

What is suspiciously absent (to my knowledge) is scientifically objective analysis/comparisons of particular models. Or maybe someone can point me these out to me. Has there been a recent blind, side by side comparisons like "the Pepsi Challege?"

I absolutely agree with you that there are people who will swear that a tube amp sounds better without really giving a solid state amp a try. This is probably a byproduct of reading about gear on internet discussion forums and developing an opinion through second hand information.

As far as a scientific analysis of tube amp 'feel', I'm not sure it's anything that could be quantified.

All I know is that I've tried and owned quite a few solid state amps. I really, really wanted to find one I liked to serve as a great sounding alternative to my main rig (tube amp) for situations where hauling in my main rig wasn't convenient; something I could leave in the car and not worry about it. I never found them to be comparable, at least in my own little unscientific and subjective comparison.

[BuleriaChk]

IMO, you should buy a software or hardware modeler into your acoustic amp, which will at least give you an idea of the sound you're looking for - you can experiment around with a LOT of different combinations, even with, say, a Guitar Port and Pod Farm, or a hardware modeler....

With a little more experience, you can upgrade to GR4, or AT3, or Pod Farm 2 with all the packs - or a GT-10, or axe-fx ......

THEN look for an amp (if you still want one.....)..

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by terrapin

When it comes to amps the "scientifically objective analysis/comparison" needs to be ears, not spectragraphs or computer-analysis of harmonic content...

Why is that?
Put another way, why not do it and looks at the results? Couldn't hurt, could it?

Originally Posted by terrapin

I have participated numerous times in blind tests of tube amp vs. solid state. Same guitars, same wattage, same recording technique, same songs and have yet to be fooled into hearing which amp was which.

Were these group tests and/or were the results published/peer reviewed?

[TomHB]

I certainly won't say anything bad about tube amps, I have two of them. It all depends on what you're gonna do with your amp. If you want it mainly for practice and home jams, even my 5W Champ is loud enough to get the neighbors angry when turned up enough to overdrive. A 18W tube amp, even louder. My tube Super 210, 60 W, won't even break up on the clean channel at 10 (paint-peeling volume). This is why I ended up using a SS Frontman 25R which, as I said, sounds virtually the same as my tube SF Champ at clean volumes. In fact it sounds better, with the upgraded speaker. If I want some dirt, I use a pedal, or dial in the OD channel. Plus it has a great reverb.

I can't tell you how many folks have bought a Hot Rod Deluxe, then post on forums trying to find ways to make it quieter. My Super 210 is the same, though with the volume box I made I can play it at home volumes, and can find some great OD tones on the gain channel.

[terrapin]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Why is that?
Put another way, why not do it and looks at the results? Couldn't hurt, could it?



Were these group tests and/or were the results published/peer reviewed?

Group tests and not published/reviewed, but quite conclusive by all musically relevant factors.

Somehow I do not feel statistical analysis adds much to rock and roll or the blues, or jazz for that matter??