Using OnSong with the iPad Mini

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Steve Berger

...For whatever reason, when I scan sheet music into my iMac using an HP 7200 All in One and 'either' the HO bundled software 'or' the Image Capture software on the iMac itself (I have Snow Leopard), I haven't been able to combine scanned-in documents into a 'single (1) multi-page PDF formatted document.'

Hi Steve...

So easy to do...and free, and built into every Macintosh.

Macintosh computers have a marvelous program named "Preview" which takes the place of Acrobat. It also reads and converts about every format of file (text or picture) commonly available.

One of it's little known features is the ability to take single/separtate pages/scans and make a single pdf document with separate pages from them...quickly and easily.

Watch this…

Make several scans into a single multi-page pdf document - CLiCK

This is a powerful feature for multiple page scores becoming a multi-page document with separate/unique pages (not just a really long single page). Oh - on the latest version of Preview, there is not click box on the upper right side of the page to open the sidebar. Instead, in the document, just hit the dropdown box (top left) and select "Thumbnails" view.

Also, from the Thumbnail view you can click-drag and rearrange pages if they are out of order.

Hope this helps...if not, ask again.

[Steve Berger]

THANK YOU LARRY!!! - Once again you have really helped me and I appreciate it very much.

Three quick ones

- For 'scan quality' is it best to scan the documents into the iMAC as .jpeg files?
- in unrealBook, how do you go 'back' a page, when viewing a multi-page PDF?
- Any scanner or all-in-one recs?

Thanks again LJ

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Steve...

So easy to do...and free, and built into every Macintosh.

Macintosh computers have a marvelous program named "Preview" which takes the place of Acrobat. It also reads and converts about every format of file (text or picture) commonly available.

One of it's little known features is the ability to take single/separtate pages/scans and make a single pdf document with separate pages from them...quickly and easily.

Watch this…

Make several scans into a single multi-page pdf document - CLiCK

This is a powerful feature for multiple page scores becoming a multi-page document with separate/unique pages (not just a really long single page). Oh - on the latest version of Preview, there is not click box on the upper right side of the page to open the sidebar. Instead, in the document, just hit the dropdown box (top left) and select "Thumbnails" view.

Also, from the Thumbnail view you can click-drag and rearrange pages if they are out of order.

Hope this helps...if not, ask again.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Steve Berger

THANK YOU LARRY!!! - Once again you have really helped me and I appreciate it very much.

Three quick ones

- For 'scan quality' is it best to scan the documents into the iMAC as .jpeg files?
- in unrealBook, how do you go 'back' a page, when viewing a multi-page PDF?
- Any scanner or all-in-one recs?

Thanks again LJ

Hi Steve...

With UnrealBook, Page advance and reverse are slightly different than with single page scores/charts. At the top of the multi-pdf scanned page it will say something like 1 of 5 (indicating you are on page 1 of 5) so to go to page 2, you tap the right side of the screen to go forward a page (or tap the left side of the screen to go back a page).

If you have gone on to the next song and click the left side of the screen, it will go back to the multi-page pdf to the last page of the score. If you click the back button at the bottom of the page it will go back to the first page of the score.

Tapping the advance button at the bottom of the page will jump to the next song, which is listed in the button. When you come to the end of the multi-page pdf, you can tap either the right side of the screen, or the button at the bottom to keep going.

The file format you scan to depends on the software you are using to scan, and the scanner you use. I use a firewire scanner (expensive, fast and great detail), and a 3rd party app (VueScan) which has more features than most scan programs offer. It is a professional package. I can scan to 5 different file formats.

Pdf is the format you want to end up with. If your scanner software allows you to scan to pdf, use that for your tablet use. That will save you a step. Otherwise scan as .Tiff or .jpg and then convert to pdf.

It's nice to know that any format you scan to can be converted to pdf easily (print to pdf option on any Mac).

Scans are just snapshots, so you what you need to be concerned about is resolution so you can enlarge them (if necessary) and not pixelate.

My setup is not typical…
I often scan photos other people already own, and then I clean them up or edit them in Photoshop. I'm also archiving 50 years worth of photos from both sides of our families (my wife's and mine) and converting them to digital.

This requires a high speed and high rez scanner. So we have a Firewire, flatbed scanner.

I didn't understand your third question...sorry

[Steve Berger]

First, apologies to the OP for a full hijack of this thread. Hopefully it has benefit to others.

My 3rd question was asking for a recommendation for a new scanner device or all-in-one printer/copier/scanner device. I've never been a fan of the HP 7200 for a multitude of reasons.

Regarding unrealBook, thanks for the 'back' page instruction. However I could not locate the "advance button at the bottom of the page" you referenced. Later today, I will dive into the unrealBook User Guide and hopefully all will be revealed.

Thanks for the input on scan formats and resolutions. Is their a 'resolution level' you recommend for what I am doing?

I understand you are working with more sophisticated hardware and software for your applications, but have you utilized the built-in Image Capture application that is resident on the iMAC and if you have, do you have any thoughts on it. Lastly, is their any other built in utility on the iMAC other than Image Capture for these purposes? Oh and I will check out Vuescan.

Thanks again . .

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Steve...

With UnrealBook, Page advance and reverse are slightly different than with single page scores/charts. At the top of the multi-pdf scanned page it will say something like 1 of 5 (indicating you are on page 1 of 5) so to go to page 2, you tap the right side of the screen to go forward a page (or tap the left side of the screen to go back a page).

Tapping the advance button at the bottom of the page will jump to the next song, which is listed in the button. When you come to the end of the multi-page pdf, you can tap either the right side of the screen, or the button at the bottom to keep going.

The file format you scan to depends on the software you are using to scan, and the scanner you use. I use a firewire scanner (expensive, fast and great detail), and a 3rd party app (VueScan) which has more features than most scan programs offer. It is a professional package. I can scan to 5 different file formats.

Pdf is the format you want to end up with. If your scanner software allows you to scan to pdf, use that for your tablet use. That will save you a step. Otherwise scan as .Tiff or .jpg and then convert to pdf.

It's nice to know that any format you scan to can be converted to pdf easily (print to pdf option on any Mac).

Scans are just snapshots, so you what you need to be concerned about is resolution so you can enlarge them (if necessary) and not pixelate.

My setup is not typical…
I often scan photos other people already own, and then I clean them up or edit them in Photoshop. I'm also archiving 50 years worth of photos from both sides of our families (my wife's and mine) and converting them to digital.

This requires a high speed and high rez scanner. So we have a Firewire, flatbed scanner.

I didn't understand your third question...sorry

[ljguitar]

Hi Steve...

I think the original poster should wade in if this is un-useful or irrelevant.

In UnRealBook (or any other song display app) if you don't have multiple songs loaded in a set list, you will not have a next song button at the bottom of the page.

Scanners...versus all in one printers…
I always prefer a flatbed scanner because it will have more options as to quality or level of scans available. That said, our Epson printer also scans and does an ok job for text files.

A Canon CanoScan 4507B002 LiDE110 scanner is $50-60. A good investment for photo scanning and document scanning, and will do a better job than the built in copier in an all-in-one printer/copier/scanner.

It will be faster and higher resolution. Ours flatbed scanner lives on a shelf in a closet between uses wrapped in a plastic trash bag (dust prevention).

For people who merely use text based charts of current songs a scanner is unnecessary. For players who have hand written charts or old scores they want to preserve and convert to digital, scanners are essential.

[Steve Berger]

Thanks Larry,

For the record, its an HP 7280, not 7200. (I dislike it so much I don't even know the model number).

Please educate me on this. You mentioned 'text based charts'. I have four types/kinds of paper documents I need to 'get' (scan) into my iMAC. (1) selected pages (songs) from published songbooks, (2) pages from published sheet music, (3) Songs, (typically in Word format), I have typed and printed out on an old Windows computer. (4) Handwritten songs.

Aren't these all 'text-based' and doesn't the scanner / scanner program 'look' at all of these types of documents as the same? (This really seems like a dumb question and probably is).

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Steve...

I think the original poster should wade in if this is un-useful or irrelevant.

In UnRealBook (or any other song display app) if you don't have multiple songs loaded in a set list, you will not have a next song button at the bottom of the page.

Scanners...versus all in one printers…
I always prefer a flatbed scanner because it will have more options as to quality or level of scans available. That said, our Epson printer also scans and does an ok job for text files.

A Canon CanoScan 4507B002 LiDE110 scanner is $50-60. A good investment for photo scanning and document scanning, and will do a better job than the built in copier in an all-in-one printer/copier/scanner.

It will be faster and higher resolution. Ours flatbed scanner lives on a shelf in a closet between uses wrapped in a plastic trash bag (dust prevention).

For people who merely use text based charts of current songs a scanner is unnecessary. For players who have hand written charts or old scores they want to preserve and convert to digital, scanners are essential.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Steve Berger

Thanks Larry,

For the record, its an HP 7280, not 7200. (I dislike it so much I don't even know the model number).

Please educate me on this. You mentioned 'text based charts'. I have four types/kinds of paper documents I need to 'get' (scan) into my iMAC. (1) selected pages (songs) from published songbooks, (2) pages from published sheet music, (3) Songs, (typically in Word format), I have typed and printed out on an old Windows computer. (4) Handwritten songs.

Aren't these all 'text-based' and doesn't the scanner / scanner program 'look' at all of these types of documents as the same? (This really seems like a dumb question and probably is).

Hi Steve...

Text based charts are typically typed in a word processor or typed and formatted and posted to a website as text, not as a picture. When we copy-paste them into a word document, they are still text based.

Handwritten charts, or pages from a book may look like text but when we scan them, they become a picture. The only way to turn them back into text based documents is to re-type them.

And yes, a scanner not only looks them all the same, it treats them all the same, and turns them into that picture. There is OCR (Optical Character Recognition) software designed to convert pictures back to text, but unless you have millions of dollars like the postal service, most OCR software requires a lot of correcting to make it useful.

This is why sometimes it just pays to retype them. If it's a well known song then you may find a text version 'out there' on the internet, and be able to copy/paste it into a word processor to format it.

The advantage of text based is we can reformat them, make text bolder so it shows up better or we can convert them to a sans serif font which is easier to read. And in the case of OnSong, once it's formatted properly, transpose keys.

If transposition is not an important feature for you, scanning is a great option. If you want it to look just like your handwritten copy, scanning or shooting a picture of it are your only options.

If it's musical notation, scanning is your only option.

[Steve Berger]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on these topics Larry, I learned a lot.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Steve...

Text based charts are typically typed in a word processor or typed and formatted and posted to a website as text, not as a picture. When we copy-paste them into a word document, they are still text based.

Handwritten charts, or pages from a book may look like text but when we scan them, they become a picture. The only way to turn them back into text based documents is to re-type them.

And yes, a scanner not only looks them all the same, it treats them all the same, and turns them into that picture. There is OCR (Optical Character Recognition) software designed to convert pictures back to text, but unless you have millions of dollars like the postal service, most OCR software requires a lot of correcting to make it useful.

This is why sometimes it just pays to retype them. If it's a well known song then you may find a text version 'out there' on the internet, and be able to copy/paste it into a word processor to format it.

The advantage of text based is we can reformat them, make text bolder so it shows up better or we can convert them to a sans serif font which is easier to read. And in the case of OnSong, once it's formatted properly, transpose keys.

If transposition is not an important feature for you, scanning is a great option. If you want it to look just like your handwritten copy, scanning or shooting a picture of it are your only options.

If it's musical notation, scanning is your only option.

[westdm]

Just got my iPad last weekend and trying to get up to speed with my music. I do lead worship while playing guitar and I think this is going to be very useful. I have the Unreal book app loaded and so far, with a few exceptions like how it works. One thing I have noticed is that I can't seem to send out a complete set list of pdf's unless I'm sending it out in the form that is only usable to others who have the same app. Most of our band members do not have this yet, so this is an issue. Am I missing some way of doing this? I know I can send the songs out one at a time, but that's not a good solution. I can go back to Dropbox if I have to do that. Does Onsong allow this feature?

Also a dumb question maybe, but if I store the same music in different apps, such as Unreal book, Onsong, Dropbox, am I using up extra memory by doubling or tripling up files?

David

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by westdm

...One thing I have noticed is that I can't seem to send out a complete set list of pdf's unless I'm sending it out in the form that is only usable to others who have the same app.

Hi David...

Apps are not designed to send out generic info (like a group of pdf files) to people who are not sharing the same app.

I maintain a folder of all my worship charts in pdf, and I attach those along with the list to an email to everyone on my worship team. They are responsible to import them into their tablets, or print whichever they need.

If you think that's a feature you need, contact the developer and if it's possible, he'll point you to the procedure.

If you are storing the files in OnSong, and in UnRealBook, and in ForScore, you are tripling the data usage. I know in OnSong, once you import files to the app itself, you can erase them via iTunes when connected via USB cable. Not sure that's true of the other two.

[westdm]

Thanks Larry

I will admit my lack of knowledge on how or why any of this works, but I'm thankful it does

I can send an individual pdf from UnRealBook, so I thought perhaps that would mean I could send the entire list of four or five songs that way. I can send them out from my original source, but was just hoping I could eliminate that extra step.

I did purchase the Onsong app also and while it has many features, at first run through it seems as though you need to change the files in order to use those features. I am scanning, or saving everything to PDF before I load to the apps. I don't really want to convert those files again to use the other feature. I did try it on one song and it didn't look right when converted. I can see the benefit if you are using standard word files, but if you are using the original charts converting them doesn't seem to be a good option. I also loaded a song with more than one page and was not able to scroll side to side within that song, just up and down. Again it may be some user error, but just some early observations of things that don't work as I would hope.

David

[83SanDimas]

I have been looking into a method of condensing my sheet music into one spot. I agree it is often faster to look up a better correctly formatted copy on the Internet. I use an Ad-hock method that might work for many of you. It is based around easy file sharing and uses the cloud.

Use the Dropbox application on your PC, Mac and ipad.
Dropbox allows you to access the same files from your Mac, PC or mobile device (ipad or tablet or droid) all music regardless of being a PDF or a Tab or a word document is placed in folders based on artist or however you want to arrange them. If you know how to organize files and folders on your computer you already know how to use Dropbox. It's free for 2gig of space and they give you 500meg for each referral.

You may need a Tab Reader if you like TabPro or GP tabs that could cost you a few $ similar to onsong.

The advantages are that any additions and changes made on your computer are reflected in your Ipad and vice versa. Also you can very easily share the folder with friends and each of you can add additional music (PDF, tab or whatever you have)

I am able to search for tab on the Internet and open it directly in guitar pro, however I open it in Dropbox instead. That way it is on my computer right in a folder on my desktop the next time I look.(also my iPhone)

On other advantage is if I am somewhere with just my phone I can access my songs and either print them, email them or share them with others I am with as well already them in my phone. I can also log in to the Dropbox website from any Internet connected computer and access my songs.

If that sounds complicated it really is not. You are just accessing your own private storage cloud for music the same way you would for pictures or other files.

Part 2 is a scanner to convert your old paper files. Buy borrow or steal one and scan away to PDF and organize them once in your Dropbox folder.

Inside my Dropbox is a folder called music. Inside that folder is a a folder called tabs, another called backing tracks. Inside Tabs are my tabs organized by artist and a few misc folders. Most are tabs because I have converted but many are still pdf and word files.

I can share my entire folder with someone, but I usually make a copy and just share what we want to exchange.

Dropbox is free so give it a try. Install it on your computer an ipad and iPhone or droid using the same account for all of them. Put a file in one place and it shows up everywhere.

[83SanDimas]

If you are interested and want a link to Dropbox I would be happy to send you one and we both get 500meg of extra storage

[westdm]

I agree that Dropbox is a nice tool for storing and using files. However, if you are trying to use it live there are a few drawbacks. Scrolling is one of the problems. You can't scroll from right to left, just up and down. So if you are going through a list of songs, in my case a set of P&W songs, you don't have time or the extra hand to scroll around. Also, there is no way to touch to scroll, or use a Bluetooth controller to turn pages. You can do that with the other apps that were created for this. Another great benefit of UnRealBook and Onsong is the ability to connect to other iPads in a live situation. That's a great feature if you are playing with others who have iPads and the same app.

I use Dropbox to load and store my files and am sold on that aspect of it, but for me, in a live situation, I need some additional features that these other apps provide.

I do like the ability to share files through Dropbox, but after reading the disclaimer on their site about sharing copyrighted material, I'm a little concerned about using it for that, if I am loading files of original music PDF's.
Anyone have any thoughts on that?

David