Oh, Steve Goodman...

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by balerman

Well, everyone has an opinion!

I don't know Steve Goodmans material enough to form an overall opinion. I will say that if "City of New Orleans" is Steve Goodmans best - I prefer John Denver. Though "City of New Orleans" as sung by Arlo Guthrie is a **** good song.

John Denver was a well loved powerhouse of an artist in the 70's. His record sales speak way better than I do in that regard. He wrote most of his greatest hits. I guess 2+2=4.

People who didn't like his gentle well crafted style of music and how clean his image was have always looked for ways to try to smear him. I for one don't like that.

Baler, thanks. I like a lot of Denver too, saw him in concert, bought his albums, etc. His best songs can hang with anyone's, and he had a beautiful singing voice. He also wrote some lovely melodies.

That being said, many of his lyrics are sappy and don't hold up on their own, as lyrics, as, say, compared to Prine, Goodman, Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young, Jerry Jeff Walker, and many of his contemporaries.

Yes, it's an opinion, but one shared by thousands of others. I still listen to John's music, and am glad you enjoy it.

CL

[balerman]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

Baler, thanks. I like a lot of Denver too, saw him in concert, bought his albums, etc. His best songs can hang with anyone's, and he had a beautiful singing voice. He also wrote some lovely melodies.

That being said, many of his lyrics are sappy and don't hold up on their own, as lyrics, as, say, compared to Prine, Goodman, Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young, Jerry Jeff Walker, and many of his contemporaries.

Yes, it's an opinion, but one shared by thousands of others. I still listen to John's music, and am glad you enjoy it.

CL

That's good, I'm glad you enjoyed some of his work. I also find some of John's songs sappy. There is no artist that I listen to that has 100% good songs. I'm sure there are many thousands of people out there who don't care for his music at all, and that's ok. But he was an icon and was very successful. I don't like to see him vilified unless you've got some solid facts other than a mistake in credits on an album and a songwriter who was upset about altered words. I think he deserves better treatment than that.

[Glennwillow]

When things don't make sense, it tells me that I don't have all the facts. In a case like this, I'd suggest that it's wise to let it go.

Steve Goodman and John Denver were both good guys, good songwriters, and good performers. Perfection is probably not reasonable to expect, however.

- Glenn

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

When things don't make sense, it tells me that I don't have all the facts. In a case like this, I'd suggest that it's wise to let it go.

<<snip>>

Thank you, Glenn.

Wanting to share in the wonderful music and stage-presence, along with the bittersweet memories of remembering Steve Goodman for what "could have been" brings us here, on the AGF.

Shame on you.

(not Glenn)

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by jgmaute

Love Steve, fortunately, being from the Chicago burbs, I got to hear him a lot. Thanks for the post. Joan

And I grew up in the Indiana burbs just to the south. I also got to hear Steve a number of times. Great memories of those days and some of the talent there in Old Town. Thanks for the memories, Larry!

Best,
Jayne

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by balerman

That's good, I'm glad you enjoyed some of his work. I also find some of John's songs sappy. There is no artist that I listen to that has 100% good songs. I'm sure there are many thousands of people out there who don't care for his music at all, and that's ok. But he was an icon and was very successful. I don't like to see him vilified unless you've got some solid facts other than a mistake in credits on an album and a songwriter who was upset about altered words. I think he deserves better treatment than that.

Baler, thanks, agreed.

I'm less strident on this whole "City" issue with Steve. I mean, John DID love the song and DID become the first one to record it. In fact, on Denver's live album he even tells the story of how he was thrilled to record the song cuz it was the first time anyone had recorded any one of Steve's song.

As for the co-writing credit issue, it's entirely possible that it was John's manager who pushed for the co-credit, since those guys are known to like money.

John did a number of great covers, including several Prine songs (Paradise and Spanish Pipedream) and a really wonderful version of Steve Gillette's "Darcy Farrow" that I copied and played to this day.

And although Prine has written almost no bad songs during his career it seems, Steve had a few that were certainly not on the level of "City". In general, the problem with Steve's career was that he was an absolute hands-down incredible performer in a live setting, but his albums never transmitted that. Also, he played in many different styles (cuz he was so amazingly versatile) so it was difficult to pigeon-hole or typecast him in terms of a certain genre or marketing scheme.

Thanks, Baler! Good to meet you!

sm

[balerman]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Thank you, Glenn.

Wanting to share in the wonderful music and stage-presence, along with the bittersweet memories of remembering Steve Goodman for what "could have been" brings us here, on the AGF.

Shame on you.

(not Glenn)

I'm not sure who you are shaming Larry. I'm sure Steve Goodman was a terrific human being and a great songwriter and very deserving of remembrance. I'm sorry to say I didn't know him. I hope he is remembered well. But regardless of the topic I'm not going to let someone get away with saying things like that about one of my idols without saying what I have to say in his defense.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by balerman

I'm not sure who you are shaming Larry. I'm sure Steve Goodman was a terrific human being and a great songwriter and very deserving of remembrance. I'm sorry to say I didn't know him. I hope he is remembered well. But regardless of the topic I'm not going to let someone get away with saying things like that about one of my idols without saying what I have to say in his defense.

Who am I "shaming"...?

The people who relentlessly insist on bringing negativity/controversy into this kind of thread.

It takes two to tango. Defend away...

I'm done.

[balerman]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Who am I "shaming"...?

The people who relentlessly insist on bringing negativity/controversy into this kind of thread.

It takes two to tango. Defend away...

I'm done.

Well Larry, I have defended John Denver without saying anything negative about anyone.

And I remember " City of New Orleans" written by Steve Goodman. It was a terrific song and I wish Steve had beaten his disease and lived to write many many more songs. People speak so highly of him that I wish I had been able to get to know him personally. I have watched the video that you linked to at the beginning of this thread and think Steve was a terrific guitar player and an excellent performer. I can certainly see why people miss him.

[tj_mangum]

Originally Posted by charmedlife417

And although Prine has written almost no bad songs during his career it seems, Steve had a few that were certainly not on the level of "City". In general, the problem with Steve's career was that he was an absolute hands-down incredible performer in a live setting, but his albums never transmitted that. Also, he played in many different styles (cuz he was so amazingly versatile) so it was difficult to pigeon-hole or typecast him in terms of a certain genre or marketing scheme.
sm

That sums it up nicely. Goodman was a talented performer, guitar player and songwriter who's strengths never really translated to vinyl. I'm 61 years old today and have seen a lot of live music and no one has been as captivating of a performer as Steve Goodman in my experience.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by tj_mangum

That sums it up nicely. Goodman was a talented performer, guitar player and songwriter who's strengths never really translated to vinyl. I'm 61 years old today and have seen a lot of live music and no one has been as captivating of a performer as Steve Goodman in my experience.

I was thinking about this too. Steve was capable of excellent songwriting (e.g. City of New Orleans). His performance capability was second to none. He could make an acoustic guitar, and his wonderful voice, do anything he wanted them to do. And, for his performances, he would choose beautiful and powerful songs from other writers like Mike Smith (e.g. The Dutchman) to compliment his own.

However, many of his songs don't speak to me. I think he best related to people through the energy and precision of his performance. On the other hand, artists like John Prine and Townes Van Zandt never had Steve's gifts for voice or guitar. Thought, both played and sang well enough to entertain. But, their songs, seem to cut deeper for me. I listened to TVZ's "Marie" yesterday, a song about the homeless, and was genuinely close to tears. And, I don't cry - ever. It had been a while since I heard it, and when I saw a video of his Austin performance of "Marie", it absolutely floored me. When I listen to JP's "Hello in There" it feels like divine truth. As much as I love "City of New Orleans", and his other hits, they don't move me as much when I listen to them, or play them for audiences.

But, given the opportunity to sit and listen to just one person sing and play the guitar for me, I would have but one choice. Steve Goodman. R.I.P. Steve.

Just my $0.02.

[Glennwillow]

I find myself wishing I had seen Steve Goodman play live. I don't know why that never happened...

I enjoyed the video that Larry linked in his OP. He was quite a guitar player. I also appreciate his personality from the video.

- Glenn

[vernon]

I lived in Chicago when Steve's career was in full bloom... heard him at the Earl a couple of times and a solo show at North Park College in 72. I also engineered jingles at Chicago Recording Company when Steve was recording "High and Outside" at night. A truly talented and humble guy. His guitar work was amazing... yes! The performance I will never forget, however, was his acapella rendition of "The Ballad of Penny Evans." A deeply gifted performer.

[steveb2223]

If you were an aspiring musician in Chicago in the early '70s, as I was, Steve Goodman and John Prine were the gods who walked among us. Roger McGuinn was the local boy who made good. I was particularly fond of Steve, as we had a shared passion for the Cubs and I would see him occasionally at Wrigley. The last time I saw him was on his last Christmas Eve. We were both trying to buy last minute gifts at Marshall Field's Loop store. It was pretty clear that the end was coming for him. I still tear up when I think about it.

I think I'll go listen to one of my old Steve Goodman LPs.

-- Steve

[dude-bro]

Thanks Larry for posting the video and for introducing me to Steve Goodman's work through your threads.

I watched the video with headphones on and love the sound of the guitar he used. Does anyone have any info on what Gibson model that is?