And yet another monel strings thread

[Robin, Wales]

I’ve been using monel strings on my little cheap 00 all hog guitar that I’ve been playing exclusively for the past two months or so. A couple of days ago I thought I’d get out my Seagull S6 Spruce (cherry plywood back and sides with solid spruce top and maple neck) and give that a spin in the back garden. The 80/20s were pretty dead on it so I grabbed the spare set of Martin MM12 strings I had for the 00 and fitted those.

Just as expected, after 10 minutes or so the strings started to settle, and then they sounded crap. By crap, I mean the overtones disappeared from my guitar, it sounded more woody and more ‘thuddy’, and I was having to put a lot more of ‘me’ into my playing and be a bit more physical with the beast. My guitar’s tone had moved from ‘modern’ to something like a dry and aged old Martin D-18 you’ve just rescued from a dumpster. And what’s more I was having to actually play the guitar.

Oh well, I know from past experience that monel strings only last a year or so; therefore, I’ll only have to wait 12 months before I can justify swapping them out for something better. While I’m waiting for those monel strings to wear out, I’ll just have to get used to playing a dread that now sounds like one of those rubbish old vintage ones that folks pay a fortune for.

[raysachs]

Bummer for you Robin. I wonder how a "rubbish old Vintage" D-18 would sound with 80-20's on it.

If I ever get one, I'll let you know. In the meantime, I guess you'll just have to suffer through with the Monels...

-Ray

[zmf]

Robin -- I'm having trouble figuring out how tongue-in-cheek your post is. You do say the guitar now sounds like crap but, if it sounds like a vintage D-18, is that good crap or bad crap?

Anyway, condolences or congratulations, depending.

[jdto]

Originally Posted by zmf

Robin -- I'm having trouble figuring out how tongue-in-cheek your post is. You do say the guitar now sounds like crap but, if it sounds like a vintage D-18, is that good crap or bad crap?

Anyway, condolences or congratulations, depending.

My reading of it is that if it were any more tongue in cheek, he'd have a tongue sticking out the side of his face

[LakewoodM32Fan]

I admit it took me a couple of re-reads...

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by zmf

Robin -- I'm having trouble figuring out how tongue-in-cheek your post is. You do say the guitar now sounds like crap but, if it sounds like a vintage D-18, is that good crap or bad crap?

Anyway, condolences or congratulations, depending.

Definitely tongue-in-cheek.

It was really a comment on how we can spend a fortune on guitars but the tone that some of us want is actually not 'lush' or 'rich' or 'resonant' but a bit more fundamental. The sales pitch for monel strings is basically "We are going to make your posh guitar sound like a wooden box with steel strings on it!" And sometimes that's just what we're after.

Only in this case I'm putting them on a guitar that isn't posh - it is a plywood box with a spruce top (albeit a very well built plywood box with a spruce top) and I'm getting a similar result. My guitar gas gone from a lush delicate stand of meadow flowers to a bunch of thistles on dry dirt.

Plus I'm having to really 'work' the guitar with my flatpicks - which is great fun and giving very satisfying playing.

I did have the shop put monel strings on this S6 when I bought it but I sort of wasn't ready for them and ended up with 80/20s after a lot of experimenting. I didn't hold out much hope when I fitted the present set but they are just what I need right now and so will be staying on. I can see myself gigging this guitar with these strings once we are able to do so again.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

It was really a comment on how we can spend a fortune on guitars but the tone that some of us want is actually not 'lush' or 'rich' or 'resonant' but a bit more fundamental. The sales pitch for monel strings is basically "We are going to make your posh guitar sound like a wooden box with steel strings on it!" And sometimes that's just what we're after.

Plus I'm having to really 'work' the guitar with my flatpicks - which is great fun and giving very satisfying playing.

Got it. Understand. I put them on a "posh" guitar just so I could work at playing it, instead of it running over me every time I hit a string.

It worked. Love those vintage Martins dumpster dives.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by zmf

Got it. Understand. I put them on a "posh" guitar just so I could work at playing it, instead of it running over me every time I hit a string.

Oh, that's a perfect description of monel strings. I wish I'd written that!

[David Rance]

Mmmm.

Acoustic guitars developed in the US in the early 19th Century when C F Martin developed the louder, crisper steel-stringed instrument. X bracing, thicker tops and a stronger build were needed which differentiated them from earlier Torres-style catgut instruments. Players liked they were louder, tougher, different.

Monel was a type of nickel alloy created in 1901 and used in ship-building because it was resistant to corrosion by seawater, so soon got snapped up for making strings which lasted longer than other steels.

Phosphor-Bronze strings came in the 1970's. Players liked them because they brought a brighter, shinier tone to the instrument. That was another definite step forwards for the acoustic sound. Manufacturers liked them because you had to change them more often if you were going to keep that sparkle. Everyone was happy.

So the point I'm building up to (!) Is that for most of its brief life the acoustic instrument would have sounded very different to what we expect from it now. Also those of us born much before 1960 might have more of an ear for Monels than younger players who have (probably ) only ever put PB on - until recently anyway.

PB and Monel sound different. No question. They're something else to fool around with. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Although in the case of Monels you'll pay it considerably less often!!

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by David Rance

So the point I'm building up to (!) Is that for most of its brief life the acoustic instrument would have sounded very different to what we expect from it now. Also those of us born much before 1960 might have more of an ear for Monels than younger players who have (probably ) only ever put PB on - until recently anyway.

I was born in 1959, so I guess I just get in under the deadline! BUT, i didn't start playing guitar until late 1977 and didn't have my first decent acoustic until 1979. I think I only played Phospher Bronze and 80-20 for nearly the whole first run of guitar playing that lasted around 10-15 years. I'm not even sure what I was playing - just whatever Martin Maquis strings were in those days? Since I got back into playing again almost four years ago, I've found myself preferring mahogany guitars to the rosewood of my youth and I've found Monels sound best to MY ears on the guitars I've owned. I've had a couple of carbon fiber guitars, where I was equally happy with Monels and DR Sunbeams (PB), but on my wooden guitars, I've been playing Monels almost exclusively.

So tastes change. Even though I grew up with somewhat brighter and shimmery sounding guitar strings combinations (PB and rosewood), now I love the warmer, more fundamental sound of Monels over mahogany.

-Ray

[Pnewsom]

Normally, I use D'Addario Phosphor's or 80/20 mediums on a Collings CJ, but this talk of Monels has me interested. Is it only Martin who sell them or do D'Addario have them too? I generally prefer less overtones and the sound of strings that are well played in, is this what I can expect?

Thanks!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Pnewsom

Normally, I use D'Addario Phosphor's or 80/20 mediums on a Collings CJ, but this talk of Monels has me interested. Is it only Martin who sell them or do D'Addario have them too? I generally prefer less overtones and the sound of strings that are well played in, is this what I can expect?

Thanks!

Well if you try them be prepared for a break-in period like you've not experienced. Hopefully others will lend their experience/opinions but the break-in for me was twofold; the strings themselves take a bit longer to settle, and your ears will not be used to the sound. The first thing you will note is that the overtones are gone and it takes a while for your mind to get used to them. You may find yourself not liking what you hear for a couple days, but most who become fans report them settling into a glorious tone that get sweeter with age. They also last forever, as long as coated strings if not longer.

D'addario makes a similar product called NB, or nickel bronze. That is a phosphor bronze string plated in nickel. They are bright (almost as bright as 80/20) and have more overtones than monel. Monel is mellower to my ears and have less tension than NB, and are a blend of copper and nickel blend.

Martin Retros, Newtone Strings, and Curt Mangan all have their variation of monel but I personally like Martin the best.

[David Rance]

Perceived and required tone is such an individual thing. I don't hear that the overtones are gone. To me Monels lose some of the shiny, bright, glassy features of PB, which are in themselves nice, but there's a compensating breadth and complexity. I hear quiet power rather than pretty shiny.

All entirely subjective and in the mind of the listener!!

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by David Rance

All entirely subjective and in the mind of the listener!!

Absolutely!

I think that having to play the guitar a little more it what I like. There's a bit of a kinaesthetic change as well as a very different tone to PBs. Not everyone is going to like that; having to change the way you play and perhaps even switching your favourite pick to a new favourite (think Alison Krauss!).

I find the initial break-in fairly quick, as quick as 80/20s - 15 mins to get rid of the clash and bash. But that second break-in period, which is me adjusting to the strings, is longer. And they tend to mellow over the weeks rather than go dead. I had the monel sets on my previous dread on for over a year at a time. I switch 80/20s in 3 weeks.

[Pnewsom]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Well if you try them be prepared for a break-in period like you've not experienced. Hopefully others will lend their experience/opinions but the break-in for me was twofold; the strings themselves take a bit longer to settle, and your ears will not be used to the sound. The first thing you will note is that the overtones are gone and it takes a while for your mind to get used to them. You may find yourself not liking what you hear for a couple days, but most who become fans report them settling into a glorious tone that get sweeter with age. They also last forever, as long as coated strings if not longer.

D'addario makes a similar product called NB, or nickel bronze. That is a phosphor bronze string plated in nickel. They are bright (almost as bright as 80/20) and have more overtones than monel. Monel is mellower to my ears and have less tension than NB, and are a blend of copper and nickel blend.

Martin Retros, Newtone Strings, and Curt Mangan all have their variation of monel but I personally like Martin the best.

Thanks for the good response. I'll buy a set and give them a shot. How is the squeak factor?