Lead guitar rhythm

[thechariot1x]

So I feel I'm still kind of confused when it comes to lead rhythm. If it is strumming patterns we're talking about then that's not too difficult but if I hear a song I couldn't breakdown the individual notes into half notes, eight notes, 16th notes etc. Many times I can listen to the song and get a good enough sense of the rhythm to ballpark it if I have the music but I'm not precise I couldn't breakdown the rhythm structure of each note. Additionally, if you give me a more complex time signature I'm lost. Recently I encountered a song in 12/8 in Alex De Grassi's fingerstyle guitar method and my first thought was what in the heck is that? Can anyone suggest any resources that would help me fill this gap in my knowledge?

[mr. beaumont]

12/8 is just 12 8th notes...a common grouping would be 4 groups of three. Classic shuffle feel, try counting the 4 groups of 3 and play a note or "choked" chord on the 1st and 3rd note of every group.

I'm a bit confused as to what "lead rhythm" is...can you elaborate?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by thechariot1x

So I feel I'm still kind of confused when it comes to lead rhythm. If it is strumming patterns we're talking about then that's not too difficult but if I hear a song I couldn't breakdown the individual notes into half notes, eight notes, 16th notes etc. Many times I can listen to the song and get a good enough sense of the rhythm to ballpark it if I have the music but I'm not precise I couldn't breakdown the rhythm structure of each note. Additionally, if you give me a more complex time signature I'm lost. Recently I encountered a song in 12/8 in Alex De Grassi's fingerstyle guitar method and my first thought was what in the heck is that? Can anyone suggest any resources that would help me fill this gap in my knowledge?

12/8 is really just 4/4 in triplets. Fairly common rhythm.

The way I understand "lead rhythm" is what electric guitarists do in trios, like the Who, Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Dr Feelgood, etc. Mostly they'll be playing rhythm, but they'll play lead fills, and can combine soloing with chords.

If you mean something different, give us some examples.

[thechariot1x]

Thanks I will try that!

So I say lead rhythm for lack of a better term because I don't have as many problems with strumming or picking patterns (I think because they tend to be repetitive so once you figure them out all you have to do is repeat). But basically I think I struggle to understand the duration for each individual note unless it's really simple or I'm just strumming chords.

[thechariot1x]

Originally Posted by JonPR

12/8 is really just 4/4 in triplets. Fairly common rhythm.

The way I understand "lead rhythm" is what electric guitarists do in trios, like the Who, Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Dr Feelgood, etc. Mostly they'll be playing rhythm, but they'll play lead fills, and can combine soloing with chords.

If you mean something different, give us some examples.

Sorry I'm describing this really poorly so bear with me haha. It seems like any time I'm working on a song that's not just a repetitive riff or strummed chords I struggle to understand what the note durations should be. For instance most recently I have been working on sligo creek by al petteway, sligo river blues by John fahey, and celtic wanderings (mentioned earlier not sure who wrote it) and the only way I know how to figure out the rhythm is to listen to them play it and try to match but I don't really understand what's going on. I couldn't take it apart by measure and tell you what's an eighth note, what's a sixteenth or even what time signature its in unless its 4/4 or 3/4. Sorry hopefully this makes more sense than my first description

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by thechariot1x

the only way I know how to figure out the rhythm is to listen to them play it and try to match

Yep, that's pretty much the best way to do it. If not the only way.

Originally Posted by thechariot1x

but I don't really understand what's going on. I couldn't take it apart by measure and tell you what's an eighth note, what's a sixteenth or even what time signature its in unless its 4/4 or 3/4. Sorry hopefully this makes more sense than my first description

So you want to be able to transcribe the music too, to write it down?
You only need to "make sense of it" in those terms if you want to notate it. That's a perfectly valid thing to want to do, of course, and there are tips for that if you want them.

Otherwise, for just playing, "understanding what's going on" is just about copying: listening and copying, playing along.
Music is a process, a series of events in time. You have to understand it as it is, as you hear it, as sounds organised along a time scale, which you should be able to feel, with or without counting. (Personally I find counting gets in the way, except sometimes for numbers of bars in a section. Counting beat fractions, or beats within a bar is using the wrong part of the brain.)

A piece of notation is information - it may or may not help you. It's good as a memory aid (that's its whole purpose!) if you forget how a tune goes. But it's of limited use in actually learning to play a piece in the first place - at least, if you have the audio to work with that's much better.

(Sorry no time now, but I'll try and check out the tracks you mention - I like John Fahey - see if I can offer more constructive tips!)

[Gordon Currie]

There is no substitute for listening over and over and trying match what you hear. That is an invaluable skill and you will use it all your life.

However, you can make the process so much easier and faster by supplementing your ear training with counting. And the better you get at this, the easier it makes understanding ALL music. (Professional transcribers could not survive without this.)

Listening and trying to match is perhaps a 'right-brain' task, whereas counting could be considered a 'left-brain' task. I'm suggesting that you use both sides and get to your destination more quickly.

Some simple suggestions: practice counting along to music, first aloud, then in your head. Start with the downbeats (e.g 1, 2, 3, 4 in 4/4 time) then add upbeats (1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and). Get your foot in on the beat (or hand if you are listening and not playing).

[FwL]

This is a perfect example of where working various rhythmic groups with a metronome would really pay off.

Most people approach a metronome as if it's just about keeping the beat, but it's really about understanding rhythm and subdivisions.


A great exercise you can do is to work on dividing the beat.

You start at a slow enough tempo that you can play six notes per click comfortably.

1. Start with one note on the beat. That's quarter notes.
2. Divide the beat in half - two equally spaced eighth notes
3. Divide the eighth notes in half - four equally spaced sixteenth notes
4. Practice switching between all three until you can do it smoothly and a will.
5. Now move from quarters to eighths to eighth note triplets - three equally spaced notes per beat.
6. Then move from quarters to eighths to triplets to sixteenths.
7. Next, move from quarters to eighths to triplets to sixteenths to sixteenth triplets - six equally spaced notes per beat.
8. Then move from quarters to triplets to sixteenth triplets.

Your goal is to practice this until you can easily and smoothly shift from any grouping to any other grouping. Ultimately you want to be able to play any random grouping without hesitation.




.

[thechariot1x]

Originally Posted by JonPR

A piece of notation is information - it may or may not help you. It's good as a memory aid (that's its whole purpose!) if you forget how a tune goes. But it's of limited use in actually learning to play a piece in the first place - at least, if you have the audio to work with that's much better.

(Sorry no time now, but I'll try and check out the tracks you mention - I like John Fahey - see if I can offer more constructive tips!)

thank you!

[thechariot1x]

Originally Posted by FwL

This is a perfect example of where working various rhythmic groups with a metronome would really pay off.

Most people approach a metronome as if it's just about keeping the beat, but it's really about understanding rhythm and subdivisions.


A great exercise you can do is to work on dividing the beat.

You start at a slow enough tempo that you can play six notes per click comfortably.

1. Start with one note on the beat. That's quarter notes.
2. Divide the beat in half - two equally spaced eighth notes
3. Divide the eighth notes in half - four equally spaced sixteenth notes
4. Practice switching between all three until you can do it smoothly and a will.
5. Now move from quarters to eighths to eighth note triplets - three equally spaced notes per beat.
6. Then move from quarters to eighths to triplets to sixteenths.
7. Next, move from quarters to eighths to triplets to sixteenths to sixteenth triplets - six equally spaced notes per beat.
8. Then move from quarters to triplets to sixteenth triplets.

Your goal is to practice this until you can easily and smoothly shift from any grouping to any other grouping. Ultimately you want to be able to play any random grouping without hesitation.




.

Thanks a lot! I'll try this exercise. I was previously working with a something similar lesson from acoustic guitar mag by Gretchen Menn I think I'll work both until I get my rhythm where I feel very comfortable.