Gib/Epi Howard Roberts - Hagstrom Jimmy

[Ray Gehringer]

I play mostly acoustic guitar these days but have become interested archtops lately... particularly late 60's Epi or 70's Gibson Howard Roberts oval hole model archtops AND/OR Hagstrom D’aquisto oval hole models that were made in the 70's.

I played a later 1960's Epi model with a New Yorker style mini humbucker at a local shop recently for a few minutes. I liked the feel and thought it sounded similar to an ES-175 when plugged in... acoustically it was marginal but I liked it plugged in.

The tech who fixes my guitars mentioned the Hagstrom Jimmy but I've never played one and was hoping someone out there has. I have an old Hagstrom Swede (solid-body) that I like... Les Paul-ish sounding (also has a filter switch) and a nice neck, this is my one and only reference for Hagstrom guitars.

I know they are both made from laminated woods and probably sound similar plugged in BUT if anyone has experience with one or both I'd love to hear your thoughts/impressions.

[Sam Sherry]

Those guitars have differences that matter.

The 1960s Epiphone Howard Roberts 'standard' has plywood back (and sides?) with a solid, carved spruce top. Aside from the oval hole, the body is like a Gibson L-4C @ 24.75" scale. It has the legendary Johnny Smith narrow-field floating humbucker -- a unique and rarely-copied design with one regular 'slug-with-screws through the bobbin' coil and one Firebird-style bar-magnet-in-the-bobbin coil. 1964 and some 1965 builds have Brazilian rosewood boards with Indian RW thereafter.

A small number of 1960s Epiphone Howard Robert Deluxe guitars were built with a 25.5" scale ebony fingerboard, extra binding and super-cool pearl tree-of-life peghead inlay.

1970s Gibson Howard Roberts guitars are all plywood and have a unique floating PAF-size humbucker. IMR they all have the 25.5" scale, ebony board and Epiphone (!) tree-of-life peghead inlay.

The 1970s Hagstrom Jimmy oval-hole guitars have birch-ply bodies and a floating Hagstrom humbucker. I never owned the oval-hole model but last year I briefly had the double-pickup f-hole model. It was nice -- perhaps the deepest edge recurve of any laminated archtop I've owned. Ultimately I concluded that it just didn't deliver as much as the 80s Fender D'Aquisto Elite. I ditched it for an FD'A Elite, which is a real winner.

I used to GAS for a 60s Epi HR Standard but they've become pricey at the same time that my shoulder has become skeptical about 3.3" archtops. And I really dig the FD'A. Looks like that ship has sailed past my house.

All the best with your quest!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

...The 1960s Epiphone Howard Roberts 'standard' has plywood back (and sides?) with a solid, carved spruce top. Aside from the oval hole, the body is like a Gibson L-4C @ 24.75" scale. It has the legendary Johnny Smith narrow-field floating humbucker -- a unique and rarely-copied design with one regular 'slug-with-screws-through-the-bobbin' coil and one Firebird-style bar-magnet-in-the-bobbin coil. 1964 and some 1965 builds have Brazilian rosewood boards with Indian RW thereafter.

A small number of 1960s Epiphone Howard Roberts Deluxe guitars were built with a 25.5" scale ebony fingerboard, extra binding and super-cool pearl tree-of-life peghead inlay...

FYI there's a third Epiphone variation, an all-acoustic HR Standard that's likely even rarer than the Deluxe: FWIW I've only encountered one in my lifetime, likely NOS and tagged @ $475 at Manny's in the mid-70's. A fairly expensive guitar for the time (same price as the gold-trimmed Brazilian RW NOS Gibson Crest they had on the floor at the same time, and substantially higher than the $150 they were asking for an also-NOS cherry-finish Epiphone Al Caiola Standard that I'm still kicking myself for not grabbing... ), it's perhaps best described as what a round-hole 1929 L-4C might have looked like had Gibson produced one, and I suspect that the preference of jazzers for the contemporary L-4C's more modern f-hole design contributed to its meager production numbers. BTW there's no question whatsoever that it left the factory as a purpose-built acoustic guitar - neither the original (white with "E" logo) pickguard nor the neck/body showed any evidence of having ever had a pickup installed - and, inasmuch as the not-too-common electric version was itself a niche instrument, I sincerely doubt Epiphone produced more than about a half-dozen of them...

[Ray Gehringer]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Those guitars have differences that matter.

The 1960s Epiphone Howard Roberts 'standard' has plywood back (and sides?) with a solid, carved spruce top. Aside from the oval hole, the body is like a Gibson L-4C @ 24.75" scale. It has the legendary Johnny Smith narrow-field floating humbucker -

All the best with your quest!

Thank you, Sam for taking the time to offer the valuable info, I appreciate it!

[Ray Gehringer]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FYI there's a third Epiphone variation, an all-acoustic HR Standard that's likely even rarer than the Deluxe: FWIW I've only encountered one in my lifetime, likely NOS and tagged @ $475 at Manny's in the mid-70's.

Thank you, Steve. Between you and Sam I got a good education on the various Howard Roberts models. BTW, I played an Al Caiola model once and it was a nice 335 style guitar, this one had New Yorker pups. The person who owned it didn’t have the specialized amp that would have went with it which I think you needed for all those switching options to function. I miss Manny’s and the whole 48th street scene, I used to run down to 48th on my lunch hour and browse… so easy to kind of get lost taking it all in… luckily I still have my job because once in a while I’d get so caught up that my lunch hour would inadvertently turn into a two hour break.

Thanks again for the HR info.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Ray Gehringer

...I played an Al Caiola model once and it was a nice 335 style guitar, this one had New Yorker pups. The person who owned it didn’t have the specialized amp that would have went with it which I think you needed for all those switching options to function...

You're thinking of the early-60's Professional model which was, as you state, a 335-style instrument (usually finished in cherry red) equipped with built-in effects which could only be accessed with the dedicated matching amp. I've seen a couple of these sets (BTW it was playable with a standard amp, using the top-mounted 1/4" jack, and functioned as a standard semi-hollow with traditional volume/tone controls) and not only were they all single neck-pickup instruments - which does not rule out the existence of 2-PU examples, either as custom orders or aftermarket mods - but the pickups were in fact the standard Epiphone small humbucker, similar to the Gibson Johnny Smith PU and different in all respects (other than a vague visual resemblance) from the postwar New York "Tone Spectrum" single-coil, which was still used on some of the very earliest Gibson-built Epis after the 1957 acquisition...

The Al Caiola model was a totally different animal: based on a slightly-deeper double-cut 330/335-style platform minus the f-holes, it was arguably the prototype for the Gibson B.B. King models introduced fifteen years after it was discontinued, and available in two versions (Standard - equipped with P-90's and 330-style trim - and upscale Custom with two mini-buckers). Interestingly enough, both models were equipped with the Tonexpressor control panel, a variation on the Varitone customarily reserved for Gibson's upscale offerings, but with five individual mini-switches; perhaps their only drawback was the 20-fret neck - while it was OK for the jazz styles favored by Mr. Caiola, it was seen as a liability at a time when upper-position soloing and heavier tonalities were gaining favor and, in spite of its fine construction and handling qualities (they were, along with their Epiphone contemporaries like the Casino, some of the fastest-playing necks I've ever handled) as well as diminished potential for feedback, it vanished into near-obscurity. Seems it's been rediscovered - and appreciated - in recent years, and prices are rising accordingly...

For those who've never seen one, here's a couple of '67 examples - a Standard in (now-faded) Cherry Red:



- and a Custom in Walnut (both were also available in Sunburst)

[Ray Gehringer]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

You're thinking of the early-60's Professional model which was, as you state, a 335-style instrument (usually finished in cherry red) equipped with built-in effects which could only be accessed with the dedicated matching amp.

It was a while back, mid-1990's, when I played the AC model BUT it definitely was the Mini-Hum model and there were definitely two of them. Sounded fine through a standard amplifier but as discussed those switches were non functional without the matching amp.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Ray Gehringer

It was a while back, mid-1990's, when I played the AC model BUT it definitely was the Mini-Hum model and there were definitely two of them. Sounded fine through a standard amplifier but as discussed those switches were non functional without the matching amp.

If yours was in fact a genuine Al Caiola - meaning no f-holes, slightly deeper body, and a zero fret on the Custom - with two pickups and Professional model circuitry (which, as you correctly stated, didn't operate without the dedicated amp and multi-pin cable) it would have been a custom order, possibly even a one-off, and a rare bird indeed. FWIW the RPO Caiola models not only functioned 100% through conventional amps, but that was the only way they could be played given the single 1/4" output - here's a side shot of a sunburst '68 Standard (note the difference in placement compared to its Casino/Riviera/Sheraton stablemates):

[Ray Gehringer]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

If yours was in fact a genuine Al Caiola - meaning no f-holes, slightly deeper body, and a zero fret on the Custom - with two pickups and Professional model circuitry (which, as you correctly stated, didn't operate without the dedicated amp and multi-pin cable) it would have been a custom order, possibly even a one-off, and a rare bird indeed. FWIW the RPO Caiola models not only functioned 100% through conventional amps, but that was the only way they could be played given the single 1/4" output - here's a side shot of a sunburst '68 Standard (note the difference in placement compared to its Casino/Riviera/Sheraton stablemates):

If it wasn't genuine then someone went through a lot of trouble to Dr it up BUT it was genuine... definitely no f-holes and two NY style mini buckers. Can't speak to to the body width as in it was a long time ago and looking back it didn't leave an impression of any sort with me. Thanks again for the info, Steve.