Hybrid Top on new Jon Gomm signature Lowden - Page 2

nacluth · #16 05-11-2016, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewpartrick

To carry this thought forward, "sounds loud with a mic but no natural overtones" ?

It probably sounds loud all the time. Lowden is probably trying to accentuate the volume of the tap by making it more drumlike. We can see an increase in our tap volume when taking a top thinner- especially around the perimeter. My thoughts with knowing only that it's a laminated top is that I would think that they are trying to make the top more "alive" to different percussive methods (fingernails, pads, knuckles, palms, etc.) by getting a thinner top. Could be completely wrong. It may be a stiffer, thicker top to withstand blows, but I doubt it. The guitar would probably sound fine acoustically, but from the write up it sounded like it was primarily built as a plugged in instrument. In that case, the acoustic sound is almost irrelevant.

rogthefrog · #17 05-12-2016, 01:45 AM

As far as I know, Jon Gomm plays plugged in most of the time. Not just for live performances in big rooms. His tone is unique and certainly not a typical "pure acoustic" tone. So it probably won't sound like a Somogyi or whatever, but I doubt it's what he'd want anyway.

I'm curious to hear it.

Badcrumble · #18 05-12-2016, 04:15 AM

Yeah, he plays plugged in, into a massive effects board on the floor.
He also plays with very heavy gauge strings.

http://jongomm.com/guitar

This here reveals a few more details...

I have a suspicion that some of these features were added only because Jon thought they were cool and not necessarily because George thought they were smart.

nobo · #19 05-20-2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

As far as I know, Jon Gomm plays plugged in most of the time. Not just for live performances in big rooms. His tone is unique and certainly not a typical "pure acoustic" tone. So it probably won't sound like a Somogyi or whatever, but I doubt it's what he'd want anyway.

I'm curious to hear it.

I'm curious too! And about the whole hybrid top - so kudos to the thread starter! I doubt very much that this is a cost saving exercise - if anything, the fact Lowden they'll be building tops quite differently to normal may cost them more. It just seems that Jon genuinely preferred it.

To my ears, having heard his Wilma (his Lowden O-12) acoustically a number of times, with the heavy Newtone PB strings, it's not all that tonally when unplugged, but it does sounds great plugged in - so the amplified tone is very much Jon's priority. But then I have an O-12, and I think it does sounds great - both with regular strings and strung as a baritone - acoustically. So go figure...

FWIW, Jon usually does a tune totally acoustically at the end of his set. And he wouldn't swap Wilma for anything (well, at least, not a Kostal). If anyone wants to swap my O12 for their Kostal, please do let me know!

CoolerKing · #20 05-20-2016, 01:17 PM

Thanks for weighing in. I'm anxious to hear this soon, perhaps on YouTube or some such platform.

Bruce Sexauer · #21 05-20-2016, 02:52 PM

Laminated tops never were to be confused with construction plywood. Still, there are many takes on how to best accomplish the stuff. The point has always been durability, particularly in the construction process, but also from the end users POV. In this case we have a guy who takes the percussion aspect of a guitar seriously and the guitar has been built to this end. As far as the incredible projection is concerned, well made laminated top guitars have always been available in my lifetime that had clarity and volume (the main components of "projection" IMO), what remains more questionable is the depth and subtlety of tone. Mr Gomm's statements remind of what everyone says when they get a new guitar, or most any tool or toy actually, and I can't hold that against him. Not that I had heard his name before a week ago, actually.

CoolerKing · #22 05-21-2016, 06:59 AM

I wonder if the overtone and sustain suffer, for example on an artificial harmonic. I'm sure that can be overcome with amplification processing etc, but I don't play in public. Very interesting nonetheless.

jessupe · #23 05-21-2016, 10:27 AM

Do we know what type pf glue is used in the lamination process? hopefully HHG? Anyone using anything but HHG should be taken to a field and be dispatched

And so much of my critique of this idea would be based on what type of glue is used.

Beyond HHG superior bond, it's sonic invisibility, it's creepless joints, it works so well because it's hydroscopic properties expand and contract at the same rate as the wood around it, which not only translates to creepless joints but also sheer deflection at the layer site of the glue lamination bond.

I hope their not using pva, as that would be like sandwhiching a rubber layer in between, one that will not deal with the absorption rate coefficient of the two dissimilar materials.

LouieAtienza · #24 05-21-2016, 06:59 PM

Well, if it was me, I'd have take Elvis' approach in "Clam Bake."

Bruce Sexauer · #25 05-21-2016, 08:13 PM

I have read the processes of several side laminaters, and attended a lecture demonstration of Hexcel double top lamination by Kenny Hill, and my take-away is that epoxy is the glue of choice. A lot of the "modern" school builders are more comfortable with epoxy than I am. I call it discomfort, but actually I think epoxy in musical instruments is a tone limiting mistake, not that I would ever say so.

Jessupe's view is very similar to mine, it seems.

LouieAtienza · #26 05-21-2016, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I have read the processes of several side laminaters, and attended a lecture demonstration of Hexcel double top lamination by Kenny Hill, and my take-away is that epoxy is the glue of choice. A lot of the "modern" school builders are more comfortable with epoxy than I am. I call it discomfort, but actually I think epoxy in musical instruments is a tone limiting mistake, not that I would ever say so.

Jessupe's view is very similar to mine, it seems.

A popular choice of glue for veneer with a good open time would be urea formaldehyde which also possesses excellent anti creep properties.

LaFaro · #27 05-22-2016, 12:17 AM

I'm not quite sure, if I've got "the point of discussion"

, but as far as I know double tops are not sooo rare and are built at times also for classical guitars... and for my impression they are really interesting... I was able to play some time ago such a double top from Daniel Stark, which was really impressive...

Marcus Wong · #28 05-22-2016, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaFaro

I'm not quite sure, if I've got "the point of discussion"

, but as far as I know double tops are not sooo rare and are built at times also for classical guitars... and for my impression they are really interesting... I was able to play some time ago such a double top from Daniel Stark, which was really impressive...

The point is that this doesn't seem like a "double top" but rather a laminated top, but no one seems to have the answer.

Michael Watts · #29 05-23-2016, 01:56 AM

Jon has been a dear friend and gig partner for around 15 years and in that time we've had many discussions about what makes a great guitar and what we each need our instrument to do. It's safe to say that we differ in opinion in just about every aspect of this discussion!

I haven't seen his signature model yet but I'm looking forward to it. It's worth remembering that the majority of new ideas (that have actually worked) in the past 30-40 years of the acoustic guitar's life have been player led and if Jon has found something that genuinely works for him then I couldn't be happier.

That's really what we're all looking for...

CoolerKing · #30 05-26-2016, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Watts

Jon has been a dear friend and gig partner for around 15 years and in that time we've had many discussions about what makes a great guitar and what we each need our instrument to do. It's safe to say that we differ in opinion in just about every aspect of this discussion!

I haven't seen his signature model yet but I'm looking forward to it. It's worth remembering that the majority of new ideas (that have actually worked) in the past 30-40 years of the acoustic guitar's life have been player led and if Jon has found something that genuinely works for him then I couldn't be happier.

That's really what we're all looking for...

Hi, thanks for weighing in! Let us know your thoughts when you get an in-hand inspection.

Matthew