#46
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Stoneheart's post reminded me of a key point that I've come to realize over the years. With electrified guitars, the pickup is still only part of the equation. The amps and PA gear we use play a significant role in our live sound. Certain systems are certainly more universal in how well they pair with amplification options, but it's still good to keep your live setup in mind when finding what works best for your ears. Bel isi, -kyle
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#47
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Just to be clear - I know how things get 'shifted' on here. I am a big fan of Taylor guitars. I want one, and I will get one soon I'm sure. I love the 'choral' quality of their acoustic sound. The ES system is much better following several revamps - or should that be redesigns! But I (me personally, moi, that's me I'm talking about) am sold on the latest Yamaha SRT and Fishman Aura modelled mic pickup systems. I think it is the way forward for more natural sounding, acoustic guitar amplification and recording. The problem is the word 'modelling'. Guitarists are phobic about it. Ok, most companies try to avoid using it for that very reason; it invokes panic and distrust. It's 'digital' and only analogue is good enough for purity.. Modelling takes a signal - with all it's dynamic content - and cleverly imbues upon it the tonal characteristics of (in SRT's case) that guitar being mic'd in a world class fashion. All I can say is, go to a store and plug in an SRT equipped guitar, and in the words of dear George Michael, listen without prejudice.
Going back to Taylor guitars, I will probably get a non-electric and fit an Aura system. Oh, and thanks for the support from some of you.
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#48
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But overall I tend to be pretty easy-going when it comes to factory pickup systems. My Gibson has an LR Baggs Element with soundhole volume control, I just got a Taylor with the latest ES, and I have a Yamaha nylon-string with the ART (SBT, nonmodeling) system. I like them all. And if I found a guitar I loved that was equipped with the Aura or something similar, even with a barndoor, it wouldn't deter me. (I like Martin's more discreet control layout as seen on the Performing Artist series.) The MiSi system certainly seems worth looking into. It seems pretty uninvasive, so apologies if this question has already been answered, but other than removing the control assembly, does any of the rest of the ES have to be removed? I'm just wondering how reversible this swap would be. I know the OP said he loved the guitar, but depending on what's involved in making the swap, might it be better to get another guitar without the ES and install whatever you want in that, like steveyam would do? And sell the ES-equipped guitar to one of those weirdos who likes it? |
#49
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#50
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I'm one of the folk who doesn't like digital modelling... and it isn't the word or the fact that it is digital. I have digital effects that I use with acoustic guitar and I do digital recording. First, the sound. It sounds artificial to me. I haven't heard the Yamaha system but I I have played the Fishman Aura and the Mama Bear and it doesn't sound like the guitar only miked to me. It sounds like the guitar with a UTS that is digitally manipulated with all of the primary characteristics of the UTS still being present. And I don't find the digital manipulations particularly attractive or helpful in a live situation. Second, even if it did happen to sound like a guitar miked (which I don't hear), it wouldn't sound like your guitar only miked, it would sound sort of like an example of whatever model was used for the image miked unless you have sent them samples from your instrument... I guess that is possible but opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. Disclaimers... I happen to like the ES system (I prefer a dual source system with a magnetic neck pup and an SBT - I have a Sunrise and a McIntyre in my main guitar) but I don't particularly care for Taylor guitars. I've owned two, an early 915 and an '08 or '09 314CE, and they don't particularly float my boat. I bought the second specifically for the ES system to use for outdoor and other gigs or open mics where I didn't want to use my Lowden O25C or cart my rack. I owned each of the Taylors about a year and never bonded with the sound of either. Now that Taylor will install the ES system in non-Taylors, I have toyed with the idea of getting the ES system in my old, beat-up Lowden S10P. It has some generation of a Fishman UTS in it and the pickup sounds OK. I haven't had any interest in getting an Aura for it. Bottom line, for me, the modelling isn't impressive. Will it get there? Maybe. In the meantime, I'm very happy with a dual source Sunrise and McIntyre through a good blender. And if I liked Taylors, I'd be very happy with an ES. But that is why there are multiple options available. |
#51
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Bel isi, -kyle
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My neglected music blog: www.kylescobie.com Be sure to check out my brother's music: www.kurtscobie.com |
#52
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The Fishman Aura system does a really good job of amplifying an acoustic guitar while maintaining most of the natural acoustic properties of the guitar. It also takes the "quack" out of the amplified signal. How do I know this? I've had several guitars equipped with an onboard Aura system and I've routed the output of other UST-equipped guitars through an Aura pedal. The Aura is a good live-performance system that enables a player to play in a wide-variety of venues.
Regards, SpruceTop aka RainDance when carbonated
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#53
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I have not tried the "new and improved" ES, but the original sucks.....unless you buy their preamp. and even then it is no better than what it replaced...at way more money. So they dumped the Fishman Prefix, which was state of the art for factory instruments at the time and took a huge jump backwards tonally.
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#54
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Bel isi, -kyle
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#55
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I for one never drank the kool-aid when it came to the ES - any version - but that's just my own opinion. It's obviously more than adequate for 98% of the plugged-in acoustic world. And as for "passing the savings on to the public", I'm still wiping up the coffee I spilled when I went online today. |
#56
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How did you determine that the costs of hiring a renown electronics engineer (as opposed to hiring an engineer just out of school), designing a system from scratch (as opposed to taking advantage of an existing circuit design) and manufacturing it with components that had to be custom made resulted in a cost savings over an off-the-shelf system benefitting from an economy of scale not limited to one brand of guitars? Quote:
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Taylor developed the ES as a solution to the artificial, brittle sound of piezoelectric pickups. Had the primary object been cost savings, they'd have replaced the Fishman system with a generic preamp design and pickups using piezoelectric material from the same suppliers that Fishman, L.R. Baggs and others use. I may be confusing you with someone else but it seems to me you''ve posted your these groundless assumptions before. |
#57
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Bel isi, -kyle
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My neglected music blog: www.kylescobie.com Be sure to check out my brother's music: www.kurtscobie.com |
#58
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Where do you guys run the volume knob? I'm new to Taylor and the ES but dislike the sound of my 414ce amplified through the ES if the volume knob is anywhere near unity. It sounds like a "hot pickup" and metallic on my PA (using standard 1/4 guitar cable). However with it way back at about 25% and the amp volume turned up to compensate it sounds much more natural and life-like to me. I keep guitar volume down, use the other knobs strictly for EQ and then control the volume and tone at the amp.
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#59
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Bel isi, -kyle
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My neglected music blog: www.kylescobie.com Be sure to check out my brother's music: www.kurtscobie.com |
#60
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Also if you are running to a PA then get a balanced cable-- TRS 1/4 male and XLR on the other end. The ES is a balanced low impedence system not a high imp non balanced like others.
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