Keeping other variables constant - Redwood or Engelmann?

silverspear · #1 10-19-2018, 09:42 PM

Let's just do a discussion in theory about preferred tonewoods for fingerstyle and response..

For the sake of easy and focused discussion, Let's assume that when you discuss your preferred tonewood top, you keep variables constant, based on your preference!

use your favorite builder,
your favourite body size and shape,
your favourite back and side woods,
your favourite etc etc.... you get the idea.

then once we assume these things, we can talk without distraction about just the top, and the inherent characteristics and preference that you have.

feel free to talk about other tonewoods as well, though I would prefer to keep the playing style focused on fingerstyle and responsiveness mainly.

let's avoid the answer "it all depends on the builder".. because it's a very famous answer already in this forum and it doesn't get us progressing much in discussion. (:

let's see if this thread works out!

Guitarplayer_PR · #2 10-19-2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverspear

Let's just do a discussion in theory about preferred tonewoods for fingerstyle and response..

For the sake of easy and focused discussion, Let's assume that when you discuss your preferred tonewood top, you keep variables constant, based on your preference!

use your favorite builder,
your favourite body size and shape,
your favourite back and side woods,
your favourite etc etc.... you get the idea.

then once we assume these things, we can talk without distraction about just the top, and the inherent characteristics and preference that you have.

feel free to talk about other tonewoods as well, though I would prefer to keep the playing style focused on fingerstyle and responsiveness mainly.

let's avoid the answer "it all depends on the builder".. because it's a very famous answer already in this forum and it doesn't get us progressing much in discussion. (:

let's see if this thread works out!

Between Engelmann and Redwood. . . I'd go with Engelmann, but only because I've owned Engelmann-topped guitars. But if it's about different tonewoods. . . Koa is turning into MY favorite of them all.

silverspear · #3 10-20-2018, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Between Engelmann and Redwood. . . I'd go with Engelmann, but only because I've owned Engelmann-topped guitars. But if it's about different tonewoods. . . Koa is turning into MY favorite of them all.

can you describe the sound of Koa?

Steadfastly · #4 10-20-2018, 06:50 PM

When I look for a guitar it's usually about the neck width and profile first. It can be the best sounding guitar I've ever heard but if it doesn't fit my hands, it's useless to me. Next would be the top and then the overall tone. I don't really care what woods are used.

There are just too many variables to choose a guitar based on this wood here and the wood there. Just my take.

I am not trying to poo poo, the discussion for it can be an interesting one but this is how I go about choosing an acoustic.

Guitarplayer_PR · #5 10-20-2018, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverspear

can you describe the sound of Koa?

I have an all-koa guitar (a GS Mini, but nonetheless). It's a mix of warmth and brightness what you get with koa. Koa as a top wood reminds me of cedar, but it's quite harder, so even if people see koa as more of a fingerpicking wood, it can be driven more than cedar.

marklm · #6 10-20-2018, 08:32 PM

I have a set of custom sinker redwood, and WRC fingerstyle guitars all about the same body size, different B/S. Two are 24.9 scale and one is 24.9 to 25.75 fan fret, which essentially "sounds like a 24.9" They all sound very unique to me. The sinker redwood is my favorite by a small amount. Excellent in standard and dropped D, it has a soulful sound that is great when I want to emote with a song. The Engelmann is unbelievable in DADGAD and it stays there full time. The WRC is the best for my lower dropped tunings like CGCGCD, CGDGAD, and I like it currently in open G.

Here is a more direct comparison, I played a fabulous Engelmann made by Steve Kinnaird before he made me a similar size Sinker. All specs were same except Wenge B/S on Sinker, and Pao Ferro on Engelmann. They both had great sustain and complexity, and the B/S are both sonically to the Rosewood family. The big difference for me, which is totally subjective, is that in this luthiers hands the Sinker Redwood has a three dimensional quality to the notes that I have never heard on another guitar. Or as Goodall says Redwood is Cedar on Steroids.

If you go Redwood, find a luthier who is known for that wood like Steve Kinnaird, Bourgeois, Goodall, and few others. I have also heard good things about Taylors and Breedloves as well.

Bottom line, I love all three of my guitars and in each case asked the luthier what he thought worked best in his hands. I have been exceptionally happy by letting them dictate that decision!

AndyC · #7 10-21-2018, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklm

If you go Redwood, find a luthier who is known for that wood like Steve Kinnaird, Bourgeois, Goodall, and few others. I have also heard good things about Taylors and Breedloves as well.

I would certainly add Lowden to that list.

mercy · #8 10-21-2018, 06:54 AM

Redwood is less predictable so pick a builder who will choose a good set or play before you buy. Engleman can sound different with different builders but with the same builder you can depend on it before you play.
The above comparison is not good cause Wenge is a great tonewood and Pau Ferro is average. Of course Pau wins the beauty contest. A good comparison would be the same b/s with a different top.

Erithon · #9 10-21-2018, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverspear

...preferred tonewoods for fingerstyle and response..

Redwood. And above all Lucky Strike Redwood (it's not just hype--the tap tone on a set easy rings out well beyond any other).
I'd stay away from the sinker stuff. It looks cool, but is hit or miss. Regular Redwood, especially in the hands of a builder skilled with it (Tim McKnight, Michael Bashkin, Steve Kinnaird, Bruce Petros, etc.), is something I'll take over Engelmann any day. Engelmann is a fine tonewood and others will no doubt have different preferences, but my experiences with Redwood have solidified it as my favorite choice for the soundboard.

islandguitar · #10 10-21-2018, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erithon

Redwood. And above all Lucky Strike Redwood (it's not just hype--the tap tone on a set easy rings out well beyond any other).
I'd stay away from the sinker stuff. It looks cool, but is hit or miss. Regular Redwood, especially in the hands of a builder skilled with it (Tim McKnight, Michael Bashkin, Steve Kinnaird, etc.), is something I'll take over Engelmann any day. Engelmann is a fine tonewood and others will not doubt have different preferences, but my experiences with Redwood have solidified it as my favorite choice for the soundboard.

YES, this ^^^^^^!!

For builders, I would add Tom Doerr. Erithon's comments mirror exactly what Tom said to me in '13 about Redwoods and especially LS Redwood ("it's the real deal"). At that time, he had some old sets of sinker from Kevin Ryan and had a lot of confidence in them, but the recent sets were indeed hit or miss.
as Tom said to me back then: "I built with Redwood before it was cool"! Great guy who has the goods if you're looking for builders in this realm.