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  #46  
Old 05-08-2017, 09:54 AM
urlkonig urlkonig is offline
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I'll begin by saying that I have always been crap at home recording, and have absolutely no mic-placement skills.

Yesterday I trained my J-45 TV/Element UST and made a range of settings with an SM57 and a borrowed (expensive) Audio Technica small-diaphragm condenser mic.

Following the TD manual placement descriptions, I get the best results from the "above" / aimed at the fingerboard at the body join approach. However, I think I may need to increase the distance between the mic and guitar -- I'm getting bass-heavy results, with an almost comical midrange honk on the treble strings. I can tweek the live output (through a JBL EON) to a usable result by setting the bass to 9 o'clock and the treble to 3 o'clock, but the mid-honk remains.

I'm fairly sure that this is due to my lack of mic'ing technique, not any issue with the TD. For those of you who are familiar with proper recording principles, do you think that simply increasing the mic distance will sort this out?
  #47  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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James May James May is offline
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Originally Posted by urlkonig View Post
...

Following the TD manual placement descriptions, I get the best results from the "above" / aimed at the fingerboard at the body join approach. However, I think I may need to increase the distance between the mic and guitar -- I'm getting bass-heavy results, with an almost comical midrange honk on the treble strings. I can tweek the live output (through a JBL EON) to a usable result by setting the bass to 9 o'clock and the treble to 3 o'clock, but the mid-honk remains.

I'm fairly sure that this is due to my lack of mic'ing technique, not any issue with the TD. For those of you who are familiar with proper recording principles, do you think that simply increasing the mic distance will sort this out?
Another position we recommend trying (that didn't make it into the user guide) is about 1.5 ft above the nut, pointed back down at the sound hole.

In general, more distance from the guitar will give a more even, less bassy response.
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  #48  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Originally Posted by LookerBob View Post
With respect, I don't think we can think of pickups as pickups themselves when we bring TD into the conversation, we can only think of what the results are like with TD.
This is a very interesting thing to ponder! And I suppose your right depending on how often a person uses the ToneDexter.

I don't really even play live all that much any more. I'm much more of a stay-at-home dad/military spouse. This year I'm teaching Spanish part time so a good question to ask would be, "why am I even fooling around with things like a ToneDexter."

To which I would reply, 1) that's probably a valid question and 2) have you been talking to my wife?

Back in the old days when I was touring and playing full time, I was always trying to strike a good balance between sound quality and versatility. Most of the time I was setting up my own sound and if I wanted to geek out with gear, I could as long as I had the setup, tear down and sound check time.

But there were many times when I couldn't do this. Music festivals, songwriter showcases, etc. I didn't want to be the one guy who needs to lug his Pendulum SPS-1 rack on stage and take up a bunch of channels for my triple source acoustic guitar!

Obviously the ToneDexter is a different creature. It's very small and portable but I think it might still be advantageous to tour and play with a guitar that sounds really good on its own and great with the ToneDexter. And I think that's possible.

If not, then you're right. You'd probably have to think of setting up a guitar specifically with the ToneDexter in mind.

Of course all of this is really just for us guitar nerds. Most people don't care at all about what they play! I know musicians who work a lot and don't know or care what kind of pickup they have in their guitar!

We are a special breed of weird!

Matt
  #49  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Matt, I'm a bit confused as to what you were doing with the Trance Amulet M-VT wheel and the Tondexter. Would you mind clarifying?
Hi Dave,
If I am playing my Trance guitar as I normally do, without the ToneDexter, I plug straight into my mixer. No DI/Preamp/EQ etc. 1/4" right into channel 2 of the TouchMix.

I then use the little volume wheel to go back and forth between the level I need for strumming and for fingerstyle with bare fingers. For bare fingers the wheel is all the way up and then I roll it back a bit for strumming with a flat pick.

When I started testing the ToneDexter I rolled the volume wheel up all the way hoping to remove this setting from the equation. I strummed and set the pickup trim knob on the ToneDexter per the instructions and did my training.

This was my strumming level and I then used the boost on the ToneDexter to set my bare fingers level relative to my vocals.

What I rediscovered yesterday is that for me, it works better to hit the preamp (in this case the ToneDexter) with a softer signal by rolling the volume wheel on the guitar down to my strumming level. (I do turn up the preamp trim knob to compensate for this softer signal.)

Then when I want my bare fingers level, I roll the wheel all the way up.

It might not be the "proper" way to do things but this has always worked for me with other guitars and other gear. This is the first time I've used any outboard gear with the Trance so I didn't think to do this.

Hope that makes sense.

Matt
  #50  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:33 AM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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We saw Gregory Alan Isakov last night, and Sera Cahoone opened...

I'm not sure what his guitar rig was, but something either mic based, or image based - super natural and acoustic sounding.

Cahoone had some sort of regular UST/SBT pickup and her guitar sounded pretty garbagey, especially by comparison... I see no reason to use the regular pickup if you have TD - at most you are looking just one additional cable to insert it into your setup, and something to plug it into, which, if you are somewhere amplied, you will have.

My 2c...
  #51  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:35 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Hi Dave,

If I am playing my Trance guitar as I normally do, without the ToneDexter, I plug straight into my mixer. No DI/Preamp/EQ etc. 1/4" right into channel 2 of the TouchMix.



I then use the little volume wheel to go back and forth between the level I need for strumming and for fingerstyle with bare fingers. For bare fingers the wheel is all the way up and then I roll it back a bit for strumming with a flat pick.



When I started testing the ToneDexter I rolled the volume wheel up all the way hoping to remove this setting from the equation. I strummed and set the pickup trim knob on the ToneDexter per the instructions and did my training.



This was my strumming level and I then used the boost on the ToneDexter to set my bare fingers level relative to my vocals.



What I rediscovered yesterday is that for me, it works better to hit the preamp (in this case the ToneDexter) with a softer signal by rolling the volume wheel on the guitar down to my strumming level. (I do turn up the preamp trim knob to compensate for this softer signal.)



Then when I want my bare fingers level, I roll the wheel all the way up.



It might not be the "proper" way to do things but this has always worked for me with other guitars and other gear. This is the first time I've used any outboard gear with the Trance so I didn't think to do this.



Hope that makes sense.



Matt


That makes sense! That's the way I do it too.


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  #52  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:38 AM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Originally Posted by LookerBob View Post
We saw Gregory Alan Isakov last night, and Sera Cahoone opened...



I'm not sure what his guitar rig was, but something either mic based, or image based - super natural and acoustic sounding.


That sucks about Cahoone. Isakov's guitar sounded killer the last time I saw him. This site says he was using a Sunrise.

http://truevintageguitar.com/gregory...7-gibson-j-50/


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  #53  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:53 AM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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Originally Posted by midwinter View Post
That sucks about Cahoone. Isakov's guitar sounded killer the last time I saw him. This site says he was using a Sunrise.

http://truevintageguitar.com/gregory...7-gibson-j-50/


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Yeah, he did have a soundhole pickup mounted... that is from 2013 - I wonder if he's running into an Auru Spectrum or something now (I know Isbell uses those)? Sounded great - I think he also benefits enormously from whoever his sound guy is and having everything dialed.
  #54  
Old 05-08-2017, 11:27 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
This is a very interesting thing to ponder!

(snip)

But there were many times when I couldn't do this. Music festivals, songwriter showcases, etc. I didn't want to be the one guy who needs to lug his Pendulum SPS-1 rack on stage and take up a bunch of channels for my triple source acoustic guitar!

(snip)



Of course all of this is really just for us guitar nerds. Most people don't care at all about what they play! I know musicians who work a lot and don't know or care what kind of pickup they have in their guitar!

We are a special breed of weird!

Matt
LOL. I've had to deal with "that guy" on so many occasions that I certainly don't want to be "that guy" myself. I agree one needs gear which can sound good with a reasonably quick setup in quick-setup situations. There will even be situations where a power outlet or a power strip won't be close enough at hand to simply plug in without needing to run an extension cord. If one doesn't want to be "that guy" (who needs a special accommodation) in that situation, then its good to have a guitar/pickup rig which sounds good straight from the guitar, or can sound good with the help of a portable preamp/EQ device. Call me "a special breed of weird", but I'd rather have less-than-great guitar sound than to be "that guy".
  #55  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:28 PM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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This is why I have an extension cord and power strip in my bag... I can run power out to my combo and TD from wherever, and they can DI off of my AMP. Takes less than a minute.
  #56  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:56 PM
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This is why I have an extension cord and power strip in my bag... I can run power out to my combo and TD from wherever, and they can DI off of my AMP. Takes less than a minute.
We've maybe gone off on a tangent here.

There have been many times where I have walked onto a stage, been handed a 1/4" cable and plugged in my guitar and started playing. There have also been times where I have been asked to please just use the DI that's already on stage.

And even though I don't tour and play like I used to, I personally like to still consider situations like this when I analyze a new piece of gear like the ToneDexter.

That's why I thought it would/will be interesting to ponder the idea of choosing a pickup based on its abilities to ToneDexter.

As of right now, I can't see removing a pickup that is say 90% of the way there and replacing it with something I know I don't like in hopes of having success with a piece of gear that maybe I wouldn't always be able to use.

Just part of the consideration. That's all.

Matt
  #57  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:34 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
We've maybe gone off on a tangent here.

There have been many times where I have walked onto a stage, been handed a 1/4" cable and plugged in my guitar and started playing. There have also been times where I have been asked to please just use the DI that's already on stage.

And even though I don't tour and play like I used to, I personally like to still consider situations like this when I analyze a new piece of gear like the ToneDexter.

That's why I thought it would/will be interesting to ponder the idea of choosing a pickup based on its abilities to ToneDexter.

As of right now, I can't see removing a pickup that is say 90% of the way there and replacing it with something I know I don't like in hopes of having success with a piece of gear that maybe I wouldn't always be able to use.

Just part of the consideration. That's all.

Matt
ToneDexter is certainly making a good first impression, but "stuff happens" on occasion. It even happens with older gear which has been around awhile and earned a reputation for dependability. (I once ruined a PreSonus parametric EQ by using the wrong power supply with it.) "What if I have to perform without it" seems to be a reasonable "what if" to be asking.
  #58  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:56 PM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
There will even be situations where a power outlet or a power strip won't be close enough at hand to simply plug in without needing to run an extension cord.
Which is why I power my little pedal board with a phone charger battery. At the most, if it's one of those run onto the stage and plug in situations, all I have to do is switch the XLR from the stage DI to mine.

.
  #59  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:01 PM
LookerBob LookerBob is offline
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Yeah, I try to control as much as I possibly can. If I have to forgo everything, I have to forgo everything, but I'll take great tone 95% of the time over okay tone 100% of the time... I mean, if we're looking at ToneDexter we're all sorta cork sniffers to begin with, right?
  #60  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:35 PM
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Yeah, I try to control as much as I possibly can. If I have to forgo everything, I have to forgo everything, but I'll take great tone 95% of the time over okay tone 100% of the time... I mean, if we're looking at ToneDexter we're all sorta cork sniffers to begin with, right?
Hard to argue with that!

If I can get the Trance where I want it, I think I'll count that has having my cake and eating it too!

I did like it outside yesterday so I have to remember that. And I can crank it up pretty good inside on my little speaker (TC Helicon VoiceSolo FX150.)

When I run it through the EON One and crank it up, I start to get into trouble.

Granted: 1) I'm turing up the volume WAY too loud for the room I'm in and 2) I don't have my mixer (in for repairs) so I don't have access to the EQ I would have most of the time at a show.

Matt
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