Cordoba Master Series - Machine Heads

[Dogsnax]

I'm a self-professed classical tuner snob and I must say I'm really impressed with the "Cordoba Master Series Tuners". The gear ratio is 18:1 and they seem very well constructed. Does anyone know if this a proprietary Cordoba item or do they outsource to Gotoh or maybe Schaller?

Anyway...really nice tuners.

[offkey]

Any chance you could post a photo of the tuners and the guitar? I believe you have the Torres, if I remember correctly. How are you liking it? They appear very glossy in some videos and I have wondered.

[dkstott]

I know that Cordoba uses Der Jung tuning machines on their luthier series guitars. I wouldn't be surprised if they used Der Jung on the master series too.

[Dogsnax]

Originally Posted by offkey

Any chance you could post a photo of the tuners and the guitar? I believe you have the Torres, if I remember correctly. How are you liking it? They appear very glossy in some videos and I have wondered.

I'll post a photo of the tuners this evening...really nice and definitely a step up from the luthier series tuners (which are darn good).

My other classical guitar is an amazing Kenny Hill Player Spruce/RW 650. I can definitely feel a difference in the way each guitar plays. The Torres has a more compact feel and it's amazingly responsive - scary LOUD for such a small guitar. I'm looking forward to learning how to manage the bass volume against the trebles, which do have plenty of clarity. Right now, I have it strung with a set of EJ46 with an Alliance 3rd and they sound okay. I'm going to stay with high tension for a few months and then back off to a lighter tension string set. Anyway, I'm thrilled so far. Back around 2009 I owned a Hill Master Series Parlor Crossover and the Torres really reminds me of that guitar with a more traditional classical neck. The Cordoba Master Series is basically the Hill Master Series coming back to life - Kenny Hill actually help train and set-up the Cordoba Master Series team of four builders.

Also...I love the finish...very light PU, not too heavy. I live in southeast Louisiana and I prefer a well-done PU finish. Sweaty arms and French Polish don't mix well.

[Dogsnax]

As promised, here's a photo of the Cordoba Torres tuners:

[IMG][/IMG]

[offkey]

Well, I was expecting something a little more ornate. They remind me of some Rubner tuners I have seen. I don't think they are Rubners though. I guess I am of no help. Lol, pretty much like always.
I am glad to hear the finish is so nice. Enjoy!

[dkstott]

While they are a bit plain looking, they are in line with the "Hauser" styling.

They certainly look a like Rubner's tuning machines, but I haven't seen Rubners with gold colored tuning stems near the gearing. It's very possible that they are custom for Cordoba's Master series.

Looking at the Cordoba site, it looks like they use the same tuning machines on all of the Master Series.

The tuners on my 2 year old GK Pro Negra were Der Jung's. I noticed that the gearing was started to get loose. After I contacted Cordoba, they sent me free replacements. I've since replaced them with Rubner's, only because I wanted a different look. I love them.

Dave

[coder]

Those look like Der Jung. If you take them off the guitar, you will see "Made in Taiwan" and/or DJ on the back. I bet these do not have the roller bearings. You will see that also once you take them off of the guitar. Those are $50-70 tuners, but they are generally well liked by people who have them. They are not as well made as the high end tuners, esp the worm gear. More expensive tuners tend to have much better made worm and gear, with more mating surfaces, so less wear, and smoother turning. Some upgrade possibilities: Shchaller Grand Tunes for 2-300$ (the ones w roller bearings) or if you are willing to spend $500 and up, Graf would be much better. (Much less friction)

The question is, how important is fast, accurate tuning to you? If you play out a lot, it may be worth it to decrease the stress of your tuning by throwing extra money at it.

[Beanctr]

I have a Cordoba Esteso with those same tuners, I agree they are very nice.
They are plain but very attractive in person, my knobs are white, fake ivory.
I think you can buy them from Cordoba. Rick

[coder]

IMO the Der Jungs they put on their high end guitars are "OK". Buf AFAIK none of the tuners Cordoba sells feature the end roller bearings. i.e the S4 rollers. For a several thousand $$, master class hand made guitar, those tuners are a bit disappointing.
Of course these are not machined to the high standard of the Grand Tunes or Graf. I think in this respect they are similar to the Gotoh-s or the Rubners. Which are actually not horrible, although not exceptional either.
The key term here is "for the money..they are pretty good". Just dont confuse the looks with superb functionality.

[CoastStrings]

Originally Posted by coder

Those look like Der Jung. If you take them off the guitar, you will see "Made in Taiwan" and/or DJ on the back.

If they are Der Jung, then they're probably a customized version of DJ306GX-P12.

Der Jung isn't considered high-end but their quality is rather good for their price. I installed Der Jung machines on my Saez No.24 (now called the Saez 2-FP) flamenco guitar and on one of my other classicals.

If I remember correctly, Der Jung got its start when Yamaha moved some of its guitar manufacturing from Japan to Taiwan.

[coder]

I think you are right. But I dont think you will get the S4 string post.
You get the S2 or S3 instead, the white or the black "no bearing" posts.
Correct me if I am wrong.

They do look rather nice, esp this one:101SG-AW S4
The "Dragon and the Phonenix". I have not seen this one in th US, but a guy sells them on ebay. Have that one on order.

I am thinking about how to improve the quality of the mating surfaces of the worm and the gear. I was thinking of spreading some fine polishing compound on them, and spinning the tuner for a bit with a drill. Let the mating surfaces wear to each other, and get polished out. What U - think? .

[coder]

On some of the Cordoba master series guitars e.g. the Hauser, the guitar specs explicitly call out the tuning machines as: Der Jung DJCB2GX-P12 (S3)
and it looks exactly like the one we are discussing here. Like I thought "S3" is the black, "no bearing" string roller.

DJ is obviously for Der Jung, and (I think) CB is Cordoba. So all that seems to indicate this is a Der Jung tuner, made for Cordoba.
Der Jung does not seem to sell anything exactly like this apart from to/through Cordoba.
Cordoba makes rebranded tuners for Ortega guitars as well, so this is apparently not uncommon for them. Taylor has (r at one point had) a similar arrangement with
Perona. In fact the only way to get a Perona slothead set in the US is by buying a "replacement" Taylor branded set.

[coder]

Der Jung Tuners with their S4 rollers are rather similar to the higher priced Gotoh tuners. I consider them clones of the Gotoh.
E.g.: the high end gotoh-s feature the same sleeve bearing and anodized aluminium roller design. Becasue of the hard-coat anodizing, I expect the rollers surfaces to stanbd up to wear well.
When I was taking one of these apart, I could not scratch the coating using a regular needle file, I had to use a diamond file to figure out what it was made of. (Just to illustrate the wear resistance of the hard-coat anodized surface).

In terms of quality of assembly, and functionality, I see the Der Jung-s comparable to Gotoh-s, I have seen a bunch of the Der Jung's now, and they seem to be all put together well, function smoothly, without any backlash or play. No protruding lugs of any kind. The S4 is a nice string roller. So far, I have not found anybody just selling the rollers, although Der Jung lists them as a separate item. In any case, a nice Der Jung set can be bought on E-bay directly from Taiwann for very reasonable money, (like, under $70) and it is worth it to swap out the factory Cordoba tuners, just to get the S4 rollers.