Taylor Expression system vs. Fishman Aura

[zb0430]

I suppose there must be some inconsistencies then... Because I honestly cannot get my 814ce ('05 ES) to feed back... I play in a very loud, very large worship environment, and I've played around in practice by holding the guitar right up to the floor wedges... Nothing happened.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

...On Saturday night I noticed that my opening act was playing an ES-equipped Taylor with a soundhole cover. The soundhole cover seemed like a strange necessity for a solo performer in a small club, so I asked him about it. He claimed that he was having some feedback issues during his soundcheck. Go figure. His volume level during the show certainly wasn't excessive. Even with fewer bodies in the room (during the soundcheck), it was hard for me to imagine that the same volume level would cause feedback problems with most UST-equipped or ES-equipped guitars. I presume he must have one of the problematic ES guitars.

Gary

Feedback, depending on room acoustics and the standing waves they create, can occur at moderate volume. The threshold for the onset of feedback is not necessarily an indicator of a problem with a guitar.

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by zb0430

I suppose there must be some inconsistencies then... Because I honestly cannot get my 814ce ('05 ES) to feed back... I play in a very loud, very large worship environment, and I've played around in practice by holding the guitar right up to the floor wedges... Nothing happened.

That's me too. We are pretty loud. I have a big floor wedge at my feet, a 5 foot main to my right, and a bass cab to my left. That's why I went back to the ES system in my RT. It's the only system I have used in this environment that I've never had to deal with feedback issues of any kind. My previous onboard Aura equipped Martin sounded fabulous, but was an ongoing challenge with feedback when we cranked it up.

[guitaniac]

Joe,

Didn't you own another ES Taylor before getting the Martin Aura model? If so, I presume that particular ES Taylor wasn't quite as pleasing as the current one.

As a soundman, I've worked with amplified ES Taylors which sounded like they were in a cave and others which sounded pretty solid and pleasing. They've also run the gamet from very feedback resistant to fairly feedback prone. I tend the subscribe to (pickup designer) Dave Wendler's theory that the ES Taylors are inconsistent because of the inconsistency of the building material (wood) and the difficulty of achieving optimum placement of the two top pickups. That would especially be the case if the two top pickups weren't working equally well.

Gary

[Joe F]

Right Gary,

I had a couple of different ES models and prior to the onboard Aura had a 2003 ES model that was problematic. I now have a 2007 Stealth ES version and it is the best sounding ES system I have personally experienced. I posted a soundclip of it comapared to a Fishman UST in this thread:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=112232

To me it was no contest. I know the UST's can be manipulated and imaged and modeled to sound great also. I really liked the Aura when I was not in a band setting. I now like the fact that I just tweak a little on a K4 and don't even have any knobs on my guitar. It sounded nearly as good with a low cost BBE Acoustimax also so it is not neccessary to spend hundreds of dollars to make the ES sound just fine.

[Nick B n Kona]

ES is a great system for live sound. Usually I leave the EQ close to flat and the volume close to the middle 'notch' setting.

One note is that the system had some problems in the first few years - like '03 / '04. I have a 310-ce that needed the pick-ups replaced a couple years ago, and the local Taylor rep did it no problem with the cost covered by Taylor. No problems since... though ocasionally I'll get a 'scratch' in the pot on the volume knobs.

I used a bandmate's Fishman Prefix Taylor a few years back and the thing would feedback like crazy... I probably just didn't know the sweet spot.

Anyway, if I had to put a pick up in a guitar that didn't have one I'd go with a Baggs or something like the K & K everyone on this site loves. You can get a nice acoustic without the pick-ups and install a non-invasive pick-up for less money and about the same sound.

I like the CE Taylors because of the cutaway and sound, but I wouldn't buy ANY acoustic guitar for its pick-up system alone.

[stephen_can_man]

I have to chime in a give my opinion. I HATE THE EXPRESSION SYSTEM!!! It just doesn't sound good to me at all. It sounds like a cardboard box with no sparkle at all. Not to mention, you have to buy external parametric EQ etc just to get clarity and mids. The ES sucks in my opinion. I recently bought a Taylor 614ce on ebay to replace my 314ce and I thought I was buying an older model with the Fishman only to be tricked with the crappy ES. I thought that maybe I was just being harsh, afterall I tried the ES back in 04 when they had just come out with it. So, I thought, let's be fair and A/B them. I am sorry, but, if the Fishman is quacky then the ES is clunky. That is the only way to describe the lack of shimmer and sparkle that the ES loses. Taylor, I love your guitars, but I hate the ES. Now I have to install the good stuff myself, or wait for an old guitar to come up on Ebay. That just sucks.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by stephen_can_man

I have to chime in a give my opinion. I HATE THE EXPRESSION SYSTEM!!! It just doesn't sound good to me at all. It sounds like a cardboard box with no sparkle at all. Not to mention, you have to buy external parametric EQ etc just to get clarity and mids. The ES sucks in my opinion. I recently bought a Taylor 614ce on ebay to replace my 314ce and I thought I was buying an older model with the Fishman only to be tricked with the crappy ES. I thought that maybe I was just being harsh, afterall I tried the ES back in 04 when they had just come out with it. So, I thought, let's be fair and A/B them. I am sorry, but, if the Fishman is quacky then the ES is clunky. That is the only way to describe the lack of shimmer and sparkle that the ES loses. Taylor, I love your guitars, but I hate the ES. Now I have to install the good stuff myself, or wait for an old guitar to come up on Ebay. That just sucks.

Life is tough. Perhaps you will find a pickup system that meets your needs. Please tell us what that is.

[Kohnodude]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Life is tough. Perhaps you will find a pickup system that meets your needs. Please tell us what that is.

Fishman on-board Aura pretty much gets the job done for me. Great sound, no hassles. Life is easy.