"I'd never buy a guitar without trying it first."

[s2y]

More of a general discussion. I get the impression that some of the boutique guys don't post in the general forum just as a lot of those folks aren't posting here.

I have purchased a "few" custom guitars/basses over the years. I have been very happy with them. Once or twice, I didn't do my homework and/or took a few too many risks with pushing the envelope. I typically approach builds with specific tones and feel in mind.

My last acoustic purchases were a Don Sharp DN, Razo OM, and a Bob Thompson OM. The Don Sharp is Sitka on Brazillian. Sounds like a really rich DN to my ears. The Razo OM is a lightly built modern OM. No surprises here. The Bob Thompson OM has torrified Englemann on Brazilian. More of a vintage sounding OM. None of them sound the same. They're all great.

Lots of guys ON A DIFFERENT FORUM can't seem to find an acoustic that suits them. I seem to keep finding them. Somehow, buying a custom acoustic is one of the riskiest things on the planet. They say that they'd never buy without trying, yet they still don't seem particularly happy with acoustics and seldom keep them, especially after constantly mentioning that "tone is in the fingers".

About all I figure is that they might not play acoustic enough, lack realistic expectations, maybe buyer's remorse? Thoughts?

[Guitars44me]

In the dim and distant past I used to say that I would never buy a guitar I could not play first.

Then I discovered the seductive world of individual luthiers, and bespoke guitars. Obviously, you cannot play them if you cannot find them. I was safe...
Until I discovered this forum. Ha ha ha ha.

One of the great things about AGF is being able to try guitars you could not otherwise find.

So you find a guitar here or elsewhere online that you think will be a good fit for you, and you do lots of homework, to check on and even with the builder and the seller. Still, you do not know for sure until you get to play it. The great thing about trading and buying used is you get to give it a real workout, change to your fave strings, change tunings, and compare to your current faves. The odds are slim it will knock something out of your current lineup but it does occasionally happen!

Since I am still playing for a meager living at 67 COMFORT is as important as tone. I have small hands and beat the daylights out of the drums in rock bands for decades. I need a slim neck, and have finally realized a mod V-ish carve is best for me. Everyone is different and when you get into the hand carved necks they are all slightly (if not radically) different too.

Some lucky folks do not feel the differences or mind, but most of us, especially as we age, find we really care about comfort!

I can not even remember most of the couple hundred I had on my way to my current lineup. But I have been playing solo since 1992, so .... what was I saying?

Thus the ongoing merry-go-round of fine instruments looking for the perfect fit in an owner!

Cheers

Paul

[jaymarsch]

In my albeit small experience (personally, 2 custom guitars and witnessing a number of friends custom orders), I find that the three main things that help the success of a custom build is 1) The player has a good idea of what they want tonally, ergonomically and visually, 2) The player has experience playing a number of guitars by the selected luthier, and 3) Both the luthier and player are able to articulate what is wanted and what can be delivered on.

I have been fortunate to be able to order a custom guitar and have the outcome be wonderful. I haven't taken delivery of the second guitar yet, but do not have a reason to think that the results will not be positive.

It is a risk but I think that the risk can be minimized through education and communication. I do agree that the chase is somewhat addictive and if I had more discretionary income, I would probably explore a few more options. As it is, I will end up with 3 amazing guitars that fit my ears, hands and eyes along with a beater for travel.

Best,
Jayne

[Deft Tungsman]

Over the past 40 years, I have purchased 12 acoustics.

Eight of them were bought online, six from dealers and two from private parties.

Four of them are in my signature.

I enjoyed the other four very much until I replaced them with something better.

I have been very fortunate.

[nobo]

One of the somewhat perverse curiosities of a bespoke guitar is that, whilst you're paying to have something tailored to your specs, there's no guarantee that you're going to like the end result. And generally you'll have paid a lot for it. And if it's been made to unusual spec, it may not hold it's value brilliantly.

It's ironic really - in almost every other area of life I can think of, you pay to minimise risk. With a commission, you're often paying more to accept additional risk.

That risk can be minimised through research, knowing yourself and your requirements incredibly well, and selecting a consistent luthier. (And having preferences for standard specs / wood combinations that would make resale easy if you did want to move it on.) But guitars are a remarkably personal thing - sometimes something that's perfect on paper doesn't catch the heart on fire. Of course, you can buy very high end solo luthier instruments "off the peg" - but not ones tailored to you.

This is something of a dilemma for me as I prefer non standard spec - most crucially, 60mm or more string spacing at the saddle; ideally a nut wider than 45mm (preferably 46-52mm); a shallow neck with an egg profile; usually a cutaway. Beyond that, some comfort features (bevels, Manzer wedge), maybe a sound port and fan frets would be a bonus, but not a deal breaker. It's incredible rare of course to find that second hand (though I have in my Wingert) or off the peg.

So I've ended up commissioning a few (my McIlroy A25c and Kostal MD, with two Tom Sands incoming - which will be the most tailored and unusual of the lot). So far that's worked out well (touch wood! ). But I have a very clear idea of my preferred measurements, and tonal and aesthetic preferences (which probably makes me quite a demanding customer!). And my confidence has been buoyed by buying most of the guitars I've owned sight unseen (e.g. off ebay or from dealers abroad or whatever) and generally having had really good experiences on that front.

So I definitely wouldn't say I would never buy a guitar without trying it first. YMMV, of course! And if you do like guitars available off the peg, there's a lot of wisdom to that... though you miss out of the joy of the commissioning journey, which can be a real treat in itself... My Sands Baritone lands in a few weeks, but so far the build's been a real treat (see here).

[jmagill]

All of my current guitars are custom builds. When I commission an instrument, I'm always in pursuit of a certain Sound, as opposed to a certain look, body shape or materials, so I leave most of the guitar's specs to achieve that Sound in the hands of my builder, following the (paraphrased) procedure described by Jayne:

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

(T)he three main things that help the success of a custom build is 1) The player has a good idea of what they want tonally... 2) The player has experience playing a number of guitars by the selected luthier, and 3) Both the luthier and player are able to articulate what is wanted and what can be delivered on.

It's a method that has always worked well for me, and the results have been spectacular.

[runamuck]

I've found the higher end factory guitars like Taylor and Martin to be very consistent. I have a Martin OM and have played maybe 20 of them so am very familiar with their sound - both with old strings and new. Out of the 20, there were 2 that were incrementally better than the rest but the differences were subtle enough that a different brand of strings would have outweighed the difference.

So, I'd buy some guitars without playing them.

[s2y]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I've found the higher end factory guitars like Taylor and Martin to be very consistent. I have a Martin OM and have played maybe 20 of them so am very familiar with their sound - both with old strings and new. Out of the 20, there were 2 that were incrementally better than the rest but the differences were subtle enough that a different brand of strings would have outweighed the difference.

So, I'd buy some guitars without playing them.

Taylor and Martin make great stuff. Getting tweaks with either company requires custom shop and usually increases the price tag in a hurry. I find that the smaller builders can be more accommodating. My Bob Thompsons were basically Martin sound meets Taylor necks.

[TomB'sox]

I think it depends on the person really. I have many commissioned guitars and love them all. I have bought some used, that were even better than the ones I have planned. Overall, I have only two that I have purchased one played, one not, that I do not care for. I think that says more about me though, I am pretty easy to please. I think there are folks out there much pickier and probably with a better ear than I that would be hard to please no matter how great an instrument is. So I think the answer to this question lies more with the purchaser really.

[Mbroady]

For some folks its just not practical to buy guitars you can play first. For many A well-stocked shop is not in driving distance. So I would amend the OP' s statement by saying... I wouldn't buy a guitar I could not return

[Bill Pillmore]

I went through a bunch of hand built guitars looking for what I liked. Always bought used and passed them on with out a loss. Of the guitars in my signature, only the Chris Larking OM was used, sight unseen, and unplayed but fit my specs. The H&D was used but sort of custom small shop and I played it and fell in love with it. All the other's were built for me and they are all different and all keepers.
Now I buy strings by the dozen....

[theEdwinson]

I have successfully sold numerous guitars I've built to people who live hundreds or thousands of miles away, and many of them came back around for a second, or even third one, or signed up for custom builds. When I send a guitar out, I insist that the (potential) buyer should have a trial period to see if it's a good fit. It IS a giant leap of faith to plunk down a stack of lucre on a guitar you've never played. And it works out great if the seller doesn't put the (potential) buyer in a position of risk.

So my personal rule is to not misrepresent my guitars in any way, but to be as accurate as I can in describing all the features and character of a guitar. And having detailed discussions with the (potential) buyer, about their preferences, playing style, other guitars they own, etc. And then, send it out, and let the guitar speak for itself. Guitars are not capable of misrepresenting themselves in any way. They can only give you their most honest testimony. No amount of hype will make a mediocre instrument one iota better than it truly is.

I have sent a couple guitars out on a trial basis, and the person who tried it says, "I love this guitar... but... there's this one thing that I don't like. Can you make me a custom one with a modern V-carve on the neck (or whatever)?" And that becomes the beginning of a rewarding friendship and long association with this person.

I also really enjoy working with people who are dedicated collectors, who like to rotate their holdings. When a person has a strong case of GAS, and the resources to support it, they can sell off some guitars and acquire new ones. I like it when someone sells a guitar I made to the next person, because then my guitars become better known, and act as emissaries for my brand. It's a win-win-win situation.

My advice to anyone who is considering buying an expensive guitar, do your research. Find out everything you can about the guitar, the reputation of the person who made it, and you should definitely talk to the luthier first, and only move forward if the seller allows you to try it out before committing to buy. You should expect to pay all the shipping charges, but that should be the limit of your financial risk, until you decide that you love the guitar and want to keep it.

[justonwo]

I'm not aware of many situations other than person-to-person sales where you don't have the option to return. Even with commissions, most luthiers will take the guitar back if you aren't satisfied.

If you're buying luthier-built guitars, your options are greatly expanded if you're willing to buy guitars remotely without first trying them.

Of the 9 guitars in my signature, only 2 were purchased from a shop after demo'ing them.

If I were buying a production guitar, I'd probably prefer to try first.

[ChuckS]

Back when I had a Martin J40MC and a Goodall GC I was able to play them in the stores before buying.

With my first luthier built guitar (Bresnan) I was not able to try one out before commissioning. Even though they were offered through Luthier's Collection they were all presold. There was no pressure to keep the guitar if I wasn't totally happy; I could have just sent it on to Luthier's Collection.

With my second luthier built guitar (Poling) I was not able to try one out before commissioning. The luthier did send the neck to me during the build so I could get a sense of the carve before more work went into it.

With my third luthier built guitar (Carruth) Alan sent me a new guitar he had in his shop to try out. It was the same model I commissioned. We used that 'shop' guitar as the baseline for changes I wanted.

I've got a luthier built guitar (Posch) in shipment to me right now. I've never played or heard this luthier's work in person. In order to minimize the financial risk I bought used.

[Neil K Walk]

Luthery is an art form. The materials that are used to make guitars are made up of organic material that changes with the seasons. Large factories follow a paint by numbers process. Finding one that's perfect requires luck. Finding a luthier skilled enough to build consistently good guitars requires a little faith.