Substitution options for rosewood?

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Recard

I've read that Chinese manufacturers (and east asian built guitars in general) will start to move away from rosewood due to the CITES thing. Any thoughts on what they'll substitute it for?

Back/Sides, or fretboards and bridges?

For the latter, Katolox possibly? Looks rosewoodish. Martin has used it before and it is not in the Genus Dalbergia. Morado is also a likely wood.

The new CITES rules (and $75-100 fee per guitar) cover anything imported under a commercial transaction, so Mexico and Canada are just as affected as China and Indonesia.

I suspect you will see a lot more Maple boards on low end electrics. More ebony on acoustics. Ebony only adds a couple dollars.

Back/Sides I am unsure at this juncture.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by devellis

I thought that East Indian rosewood was grown on plantations (often between tea plant rows, I believe) in sufficient quantities and with enough sustainable replenishment that it wasn't an issue. Has that changed?

It's very sustainable. The issue is that there are new CITES rules because inspectors can't tell the difference between one type of rosewood and another.

[Thoragaverung]

I use Orange Osage for braces in my guitars. It's dense, taps out bright, super strong, smells good. It glues well. It would probably sound great. It oxidizes to yellow after you cut it and is interesting to look at.

BUT

It is insanely hard to find large clear pieces, though. It's a weed tree, and tends to be gnarled and knotty. I can't see it becoming a stock wood for backs and sides because you'd never find pieces big enough. If you did find them big enough they'd be expensive because rare.

Walnut and maple backs/sides are probably going to be a big thing. Cherry too.

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by Thoragaverung

I use Orange Osage for braces in my guitars. It's dense, taps out bright, super strong, smells good. It glues well. It would probably sound great. It oxidizes to yellow after you cut it and is interesting to look at.

BUT

It is insanely hard to find large clear pieces, though. It's a weed tree, and tends to be gnarled and knotty. I can't see it becoming a stock wood for backs and sides because you'd never find pieces big enough. If you did find them big enough they'd be expensive because rare.

Walnut and maple backs/sides are probably going to be a big thing. Cherry too.

I visited Iowa a few years back and spent some time looking at oo trees. They're shrubby and twisted and tough and mean. Perfect for natural hedges.

I think the Godin family uses cherry fairly extensively for their acoustics.

Taylor has been getting ready for this problem for many years now. I'm not sure they were ready for the blanket CITES listing for rosewood, but they've been working hard to make (domestic, abundant, large, straight) maple more palatable to a wider range of players, both tonally with new bracing and visually with the dark stain. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, many (most) guitar buyers buy with their eyes and checklists first and ears second; I'd it doesn't look like a Martin and/or have "real" rosewood or "real" mahogany, people will walk right past the best guitar in the world all day long and buy inferior instruments with the "right" specs.

As usual, when humans are involved, things tend to go south eventually.

[M Hayden]

I've used padauk for two instruments - a parlor and an OM. Both sounded ok for amateur-made instruments. Another was cherry which I like a lot, because it's very easy to bend.

I'm experimenting with some chunks of wood from a bottle brush tree for bridges. It's hard and dense and nearly poreless, and drying it is a trial, as it end-cracks, but the few pieces I have successfully dried and used worked ok with file and rasp and sandpaper for Martin style bridges.

[madhat]

Originally Posted by Tico

As childless old man I've done my part.
Not having kids is the greenest thing any person can do, though it boggles my mind to learn so many find this subject taboo.

My carbon footprint will stop walking when my toxic embalming fluid leaches into the groundwater.

Not having kids is even more green that what that bumper sticker suggest, "Save the Planet. Kill Yourself." ... that is unless you kill yourself before having kids.
My partner's grandmother has 78 descendants, and counting ... each of whom will have ... oh ... never mind.

A lot of truth here.
It should be a serious consideration and limitation.

If every global couple were limited to one child- we would quickly be moving the right direction -not only in population- but delivering the focused care, nurturing and perspective that so many kids lack.
My wife and I have done exactly that.

As for the rosewood replacement options- it is not just a question of what might be a suitable replacement for the guitar - but what is a long term sustainable replacement for guitar.

Oak, myrtle, etc... for example - these don't seem like long term solutions in mass production?

Martin turning to Sipo as a Mahogany sub has been great I think so far as its qualities for acoustic guitar- I am a big fan of Sipo. But I have no idea what the long term outlook might be for this timber....

madhat.

[00-28]

WOW, this just got scary weird.

....Mike

[RossM]

Originally Posted by Tico

As childless old man I've done my part.
Not having kids is the greenest thing any person can do, though it boggles my mind to learn so many find this subject taboo.

My carbon footprint will stop walking when my toxic embalming fluid leaches into the groundwater.

Not having kids is even more green that what that bumper sticker suggest, "Save the Planet. Kill Yourself." ... that is unless you kill yourself before having kids.
My partner's grandmother has 78 descendants, and counting ... each of whom will have ... oh ... never mind.

So, in the future guitars will have solid Soylent Green back and sides. That could work....

[printer2]

Originally Posted by madhat

Oak, myrtle, etc... for example - these don't seem like long term solutions in mass production?

Yeah, not much oak manufactured into other products such as furniture, kitchen cabinets, not much more as far as I can think of.

[mercy]

Some crazy answers on this thread. My opinion is that Indian will continue to be used popularly but with the certs required. No doubt this will increase the cost of guitars but cost is a invented figure anyway.

[Norml]

Originally Posted by Tico

As childless old man I've done my part.
Not having kids is the greenest thing any person can do, though it boggles my mind to learn so many find this subject taboo.

My carbon footprint will stop walking when my toxic embalming fluid leaches into the groundwater.

Not having kids is even more green that what that bumper sticker suggest, "Save the Planet. Kill Yourself." ... that is unless you kill yourself before having kids.
My partner's grandmother has 78 descendants, and counting ... each of whom will have ... oh ... never mind.

If only more people thought this way.

[ahorsewithnonam]

Originally Posted by Norml

If only more people thought this way.

I feel sorry for you.