Learning the Guitar - is there a right way?

[mc1]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I KNEW someone had to have done it on youtube...

This should be a new scientific theory, like those ones about quantum theory and multiple parallel universes:
Anything that can happen, will happen (ie in one of those other universes)

Any human activity that can be possibly imagined, someone has already done it on youtube.

or maybe like godwin's law.

soon, if it isn't on youtube, that will be evidence it doesn't exist...

i was really hoping bela fleck had done a version, but no luck.

[david.guitar]

My best advice is to be around musicians and guitar players who are better than you as much as possible. Music is very much an aural tradition that is passed down from master to student. Playing with people who are better than me has always helped me progress the fastest. It's hard to study a good time feel, while it's much easier to get there by playing with a master drummer.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Kh1967

...What might you recommend? I am willing to go way back to go forward. Again, I love this thing called a guitar. I am in my mid-forties and feel like I have years ahead of me to enjoy the guitar. So, I want to make sure I continue to enjoy it and that is why this learning strategy is so important to me.

Hi Kh...

As a teacher I'd want to know what you intend to learn, and then recommend you get DVDs, check out YouTube, consult players, ask questions here and perhaps take lessons.

A classical teacher is not going to probably feed you what you need to do Travis Style fingerpicking, and a Travis Teacher will not likely give you what you need for Atkins style, or an Atkins stylist what you need for 1960-1970s jazz…etc.

There are so many styles of guitar, and with intermediate and advanced students I have them study and learn a number of alternate fingerings for standard chords based on how they are used in context of songs etc.

As for the song based approach, unless you intend not to play songs, I sure agree with songs being part of your growth. If all one does is exercises in the practice room and scale, etudes and inversions without doing anything with it, why on earth is one learning?

So I encourage you to pick out some songs you would like to learn, perhaps even arrangements of them by a favorite player, and expand your quest to find people who can usher you closer to being able to play the way you envision playing.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by david.guitar

My best advice is to be around musicians and guitar players who are better than you as much as possible. Music is very much an aural tradition that is passed down from master to student. Playing with people who are better than me has always helped me progress the fastest. It's hard to study a good time feel, while it's much easier to get there by playing with a master drummer.

unfortunately, this will only work for half of the players.

[him]

Another thought on the tennis analogy....from a noob perspective at least.

If you look at where Tennis fits in the scheme of things, it goes something like this:

1: Sport
2: Ball sport
3: Ball sport played with racquets
4: Tennis
5: Hard court tennis

I'm skipping layers (racquets, bats, and clubs all group) for clarity.

If you look at where the fundamentals and core "muscle memory" skills are needed to do well it is almost all in #5 (Hard Court Tennis
level), with progressively less until there are no fundamental "muscle memory" skills related to Sport in general. Skills related to Hard Court tennis may map to another style... grass or what have you, but if you use Hard Court reflexes on grass you will lose.

If you do the same thing with guitar it seems to go:

1: Music
2: String
3: Guitar
4: Acoustic
5: Bluegrass

Again, I'm skipping layers (fixed length played open/harp/piano type vs. changing length/guitar/violin type, etc) but hopefully not in a meaningful way.

The point is that Guitar and Tennis are at different levels. Guitar is more general than Tennis.

I would say that there is not a single right way for guitar. There may be a single right way for Acoustic Jazz or Baroque classical but not for guitar in general, any more than there would be a single right way for Ball Sports played with a Racquet.

Specific schools (e.g. electric Jazz or classical flamenco) have specific and rigid skills and fundamentals that must be learned a certain way. However, what represents refined technique for a particular school of blues guitar may be unacceptably bad technique for a different school, just as excellent badminton technique may also be atrocious hard-court tennis technique.

That's my take anyway....

[Mr Fixit eh]

Originally Posted by Kh1967

I have been playing guitar on and off for awhile and very much enjoy it. At its foundation, I love music and I love wood instruments and guitar has captured me at a musical and at a design and building level. I am a happy person with guitars in my life.


Is there a right way to learn? Not for the short term, but for the long term?

I need a strategy, a laid out plan. I can't take from here and there.

What might you recommend? I am willing to go way back to go forward. Again, I love this thing called a guitar. I am in my mid-forties and feel like I have years ahead of me to enjoy the guitar. So, I want to make sure I continue to enjoy it and that is why this learning strategy is so important to me.

Hi K,

My day job is that of workplace trainer, so I'll share a little bit of learning theory that applies specifically to adult learners that you might find helpful.

A/ What's your learning style?
Adult learners have different learning styles. These learning styles have been described in various ways, perhaps the most common is the descriptions of visual learners, auditory learners, and tactile learners (Fleming). Another practical model involves two perceptual qualities 1) concrete and 2) abstract; and two ordering abilities 1) random and 2) sequential. Concrete perceptions involve registering information through the five senses, while abstract perceptions involve the understanding of ideas, qualities, and concepts which cannot be seen. In regard to the two ordering abilities, sequential involves the organization of information in a linear, logical way and random involves the organization of information in chunks and in no specific order. People have different preferred orientations on this X/Y grid (Butler, Gregorc). If you are interested in more information you can find a broader discussion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles This site gives some practical learning strategies as they relate to 7 learning styles: http://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/

All this to say that you will probably enjoy the learning process more, and perhaps learn faster, if you find a learning strategy that best 'fits' your personality and learning style.

B/ Key Principles for Effective Learning.
There are also some principles of adult learning that might help you find a strategy that works for you:

1. Learning needs to be meaningful. An adult learner needs to know what they want to do, what they can already do - then they can find ways to develop the skills that fall in the gap.

2. Adults learn best by doing. Yes, many folks like to have understanding, but the learning 'sticks' best when there is meaningful practical application of the task/skill.

All that to say - the methods of learning you talked about (guitar teacher, DVD's, online courses) are all just tools in the learning process. I get the sense that you feel 'lost' right now. You know that you want to improve, but don't know where to turn. I would suggest that what you need to do is create a personal learning plan.

C/ Create A Personal Learning Plan.
To get there, you'll need to (1) take an inventory of what you know about music, what guitar-playing skills you have, and what musical skills you have. Take a look at what you've done musically and guitar-wise that you're proud of/ pleased with.

(2) You'll need to make a list of your musical goals. What genres do you want to play - rock? Country? Pop? What songs are you dying to play? What guitarist would you love to play like? What guitar techniques do you want to learn - alternate tunings? Fingerstyle? Percussive? What would you like to do with your guitar - play for family? play for groups? Record YouTube videos? Make a CD?

Prioritize this list - it's only reasonable to try and work on 1 or 2 things at a time.

(3) Then you'll need to figure out what skills, abilities, and techniques you need to develop in order to progress from (1) to (2). Prioritize this list.

(4) Now, you can look at what resources you can use to build these skills (3). It might be using a guitar teacher - you can even find one-one-one tutorials using Skype, etc, on the web. It might be DVDs. It might be books. It might be taking on specific activities - like signing up for an open mic to get some practical experience playing for an audience, or joining a band.

(5) Finally, you can put together a 'setlist' of activities that will help move you towards your goals (2). You might find it helpful to sit down with a guitar teacher (whether or not you end up using a guitar teacher as part of your 'plan'). A teacher is pretty familiar with the above process. Or you could sit down with a guitar-playing friend who could act as a sounding board. Or you could post back here. Whatever works.

I'd recommend that you make these lists in writing, and keep them. Review them from time to time. It will be encouraging to look back in a few months and see where you've made progress. As time goes by, your goals might well change.

You will find that if you back up and take a bit of time to think and work these steps through, you will gain that sense of direction that you are craving and you will become energized as you begin to see progress towards your goals.

Enjoy the journey.

Steve

[WSMReloaded]

Thanks Steve! Very informative and helpful.

[Kh1967]

Thanks, Steve. Very interesting.

[Kh1967]

Perhaps my original post should have been is there a "better" way to learn guitar? I appreciate a lot of the input that has been provided.

It is interesting to me, and please no one take offense, that I believe if I posted a similar question on a saxophone forum, I would likely get a fairly tight set of answers, and the same would hold true for the piano. I use these, because I played both for years and my training was far less dependent on what I wanted to play, how much fun it needed to be, and whether or not I wanted to pick up chicks as a goal of my instrument playing Whether I wanted to play in a church or a VFW hall was also irrelevant.

I guess maybe the answer to my question lies in the variety of answers I have received.

Moreover, I want to clarify that I am not a total newbie to guitar. But, I am struck with things that I know I "passed" over in my learning and while they have not been critical, I just wondered if there was a "better" way to learn. I am not bogged down by the details, but I am interested in them. Depending on how you look at it, "God or the Devil lies in the details." :-)

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Kh1967

... I just wondered if there was a "better" way to learn. I am not bogged down by the details, but I am interested in them. Depending on how you look at it, "God or the Devil lies in the details." :-)

Hi again Kh...
Yes, if you had asked about Saxophone or Piano there would have perhaps been less variety in the answers...or a more formal/traditional path laid out. I have a degree in elementary and secondary vocal and instrumental music, and teach intermediate and advanced fingerstyle (for 35 years locally now).

There may be fewer approaches with sax and piano than with guitars.

Electric Piano and wind-sticks (midi wind instruments) certainly exist, but are still subject to the same fingerings and techniques. And except for accordion, keyboards come with standard spaced keys.

Fewer teaching options are available for either.

Not many jazz or R&B sax teachers around (none locally here), and ''stride'' piano teachers are fewer as well. We have one local jazz pianist, but he's a player, not a teacher.

In my mind a classical guitar is a different instrument than an acoustic 6 string or an electric guitar. They sometimes share a tuning system, and come in different sizes and shapes, length of scale, width or depth of neck, formulation of strings, and are supplied with at least 5 different languages of communication.

And guitars are much more prevalent and affordable. And the culture is slanted heavily toward being self-taught (or a friend shows you some chords) and it's perfectly acceptable to learn on one's own.

Acoustics or electrics can be played with or without plectrum - which come in dozens of weights made from dozens of materials.

• TAB
• Notation
• Jazz Chord Charts
• Lyric sheets with chords
• Nashville Numbering system
• By ear

I realize other instruments are played by ear, but few sax, trumpet, clarinet, flute, oboe, trombones are played by ear by self-taught players. Most started with lessons in school band. Never had the guitar option offered in my schools…

And each guitar style has a tradition…

• In the case of classical guitar, scores and rules…rule.
• With rock, it's chord charts or lyric sheets.
• Jazz, well there are teachers, and it's more about scales, chords, arpeggios, inversions, and real-book style charts than notation or TAB.
• Rock - monkey-see-monkey-do has been the prescribed method (so it is with Gypsy Jazz too, which has no written music history or culture…it was learned/taught rote).
• Fingerstyle is all over the map - thumb and 1 or 2 or 3 fingers (and even 4 sometimes). And few scores available for any of it.
• And for worship teams, and popular songs, there are lyric sheets with chord charts.

And for the rest - YouTube.

Just a few thoughts while the potatoes are baking…

[Kh1967]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi again Kh...
Yes, if you had asked about Saxophone or Piano there would have perhaps been less variety in the answers...or a more formal/traditional path laid out. I have a degree in elementary and secondary vocal and instrumental music, and teach intermediate and advanced fingerstyle (for 35 years locally now).

There may be fewer approaches with sax and piano than with guitars.

Electric Piano and wind-sticks (midi wind instruments) certainly exist, but are still subject to the same fingerings and techniques. And except for accordion, keyboards come with standard spaced keys.

Fewer teaching options are available for either.

Not many jazz or R&B sax teachers around (none locally here), and ''stride'' piano teachers are fewer as well. We have one local jazz pianist, but he's a player, not a teacher.

In my mind a classical guitar is a different instrument than an acoustic 6 string or an electric guitar. They sometimes share a tuning system, and come in different sizes and shapes, length of scale, width or depth of neck, formulation of strings, and are supplied with at least 5 different languages of communication.

And guitars are much more prevalent and affordable. And the culture is slanted heavily toward being self-taught (or a friend shows you some chords) and it's perfectly acceptable to learn on one's own.

Acoustics or electrics can be played with or without plectrum - which come in dozens of weights made from dozens of materials.

• TAB
• Notation
• Jazz Chord Charts
• Lyric sheets with chords
• Nashville Numbering system
• By ear

I realize other instruments are played by ear, but few sax, trumpet, clarinet, flute, oboe, trombones are played by ear by self-taught players. Most started with lessons in school band. Never had the guitar option offered in my schools…

And each guitar style has a tradition…

• In the case of classical guitar, scores and rules…rule.
• With rock, it's chord charts or lyric sheets.
• Jazz, well there are teachers, and it's more about scales, chords, arpeggios, inversions, and real-book style charts than notation or TAB.
• Rock - monkey-see-monkey-do has been the prescribed method (so it is with Gypsy Jazz too, which has no written music history or culture…it was learned/taught rote).
• Fingerstyle is all over the map - thumb and 1 or 2 or 3 fingers (and even 4 sometimes). And few scores available for any of it.
• And for worship teams, and popular songs, there are lyric sheets with chord charts.

And for the rest - YouTube.

Just a few thoughts while the potatoes are baking…

Thanks for the explanation I hope the potatoes turn out well. Personally, I never met a potato I did not enjoy!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Kh1967

Thanks for the explanation I hope the potatoes turn out well. Personally, I never met a potato I did not enjoy!

Hi Kh...
Thanks, they did, as did the Chicken Cordon Bleu…

[slinco]

............