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Old 04-20-2021, 02:14 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Default Segovia Diatonic Major and Minor Scales

In 1953, Andres Segovia published a (thin) book of scales titled, Diatonic Major and Minor Scales. It is a set of fingerings for the 24 diatonic scales. (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/diatonic).

The preface states the following:

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The student who wishes to acquire a firm technique on the guitar should not neglect the patient study of scales. If he practices them two hours a day, he will correct faulty hand positions, gradually increase the strength of the fingers, and prepare the joints for later speed studies. Thanks to the independence and elasticity which the fingers develop though the study of scales, the student will soon acquire a quality which is very difficult to gain later; physical beauty of sound. I say physical, because sonority and its infinite shadings are not the result of stubborn will power but spring from the innate excellence of spirit.

In order to derive the greatest possible benefit from the following exercises, play them slowly and vigorously at first, more lightly and rapidly later. In one hour of scales may be condensed many hours of arduous exercises which are frequently futile. The practice of scales enables on to solve a greater number of technical problems in a shorter time than the study of any other exercises.
The set of scales starts with the key of C major and progresses through the cycle of fifths to include all major keys. Between each major key is the (melodic minor) scale for the key of its relative minor. That is, the scale of a major key is played followed by the scale of its relative minor.

He states to practice each scale "apoyando" (rest stroke) seven times. Each repetition uses a different alternation of two plucking fingers, the combinations, as follows:

I m I m I m I m
m I m I m I m I
a m a m a m a m a
m a m a m a m a m
I a I a I a I a I a
a I a I a I a I a
I m a I m a I m a

I'll describe what I was taught and have since taught.

Practicing 24 scales each seven times is a considerable undertaking in time and effort. I was taught a "shortened" version in which the first six alternating combinations were used. The 24 scales were divided into six groups, each played with one of the first six alternating combinations above. For example, the first four scales, C major, A minor, G major and E minor are played using the alternating I m I m I m. D major, B minor, A major and F# minor are played alternating I a I a I a. Strict attention is payed to alternating fingers even in switching from one string to the next: no two successive notes are plucked with the same finger. Each scale is repeated four times, the first two times played "emphatically", the second two times more "lightly".

Each note should be played firmly using rest stroke. At first, the plucking should be very conscious and meticulous. Prior to each plucking action, the plucking finger should be at rest in contact with the string. The string should rest between the flesh of the fingertip and the fingernail - assuming one is playing "in the Segovia style" using fingernails. Each successive note is plucked by starting with the plucking finger at rest and in contact with the string. At first, this produces a staccato-like playing as the next finger comes to rest on the just-plucked string, stopping its vibration. At first, this can be practiced as 1 and 2 and 3 and... Plucking of the string occurs on "1" (and successive numbers) while the "planting" of the next finger to pluck on the string occurs on "and".

As one gains fluency with the left hand fingering, and uniform strict alternation of plucking fingers with the right hand, one can gradually increase the speed at which the scale is played.

I was taught to learn one scale at a time, starting with C major. That scale is practiced until there is some fluency, at which time the next scale can be added. Those two scales are then practiced until there is sufficient fluency at which time the next scale can be added. In the format of olden-day, in-person weekly lessons, that meant practice added one new scale per week of practice. That is, learning all 24 scales would take about 6 or so weeks.

As additional scales are added to the practice, the amount of material to play increases. When played at a medium speed, the 24 scales take about 20 minutes to play through, using the practice regime described above, playing each scale four times. At the beginning, spending 20 minutes on the single C major scale - for a week or so - is probably not excessive, as one learns the fingering and pays attention to the technical aspects of both left and right hand.

Some of the scales are limited to two octaves while others are a full three octaves. (The three octave scales introduce how to play the frets of the fretboard extension over the body.) Some of the scale fingerings repeat, but, obviously, are played at different frets appropriate to that key. That makes some of the scales easier, since they are the same fingerings as previous scales.


One of the things that the scales can teach is regarding left hand fingerings. The scales should be played with the fingerings exactly as written. The scales make use of a technique sometimes referred to as a "guide finger" in which a fretting finger has its pressure released to just touch the string and then slides along the string to a higher or lower fret. The sliding action provides a linear reference for the movement of the entire left (fretting) hand. These are not explicitly marked in Segovia's notations.

The first example of that is in the first scale, C major. The sixth note in the scale is an A note on the third string. Segovia notates that the notes following are also played on the third string. The A note, played with the index finger ("1") is succeeded by the B note played with the third finger, which is succeeded by the C note, still on the third string, which is played with the first finger. Doing so necessitates a change in hand position. This can be accomplished by keeping the first finger fretting the A note while the 3rd finger frets the B note. When it is time to play the C note, remove the 3rd finger, release the pressure with the first finger - still on the A note - until it just maintains contact with the string, but does not depress it, and slide the entire hand to the V position (fret 5) to play the C note, using the first finger's contact with the third string as a guide or physical reference. This is repeated in reverse when playing the descending scale (between the 8th to last note and the 6th to last note).

It should also be noted of left hand fingerings that when playing ascending notes, as each successive note on the same string is played, the previous fretted notes remain fretted. That is, don't lift each finger after its note has been played. In a simple example, if you play the C note, second string, first fret, first finger, then play C#, second string, second fret, second finger, continue to fret with first finger at the first fret. As you play the D note, second string, third fret, third finger, continue to fret both the first fret and second fret, with first and second fingers, respectively, while you play the D note. The same as you play the D#, leaving the other three fingers continuing to fret their previous notes. Doing so creates stability in the fretting hand and aids in keeping the knuckles parallel to the strings.

One way of playing the descending part of the scale is to fret all of the notes on a single string at that fret position. Continuing the example above, descending, fret all four fingers on their respective frets and then remove them one at a time as the next note is to be plucked. For the above example, fret the second string with all four fingers at frets 4, 3, 2, 1, respectively for the fourth, third, second and first fingers. Pluck the D# (fourth fret, fourth finger). Using the rhythm described above, on the "and", simultaneously "plant" the next plucking finger (right hand) and remove the fourth finger, leaving third, second and first fingers fretting those notes. Pluck the string on a numbered beat (e.g. "1"). On the off beat ("and") simultaneously "plant" the plucking finger on the second string, stopping its vibration, and remove the third finger, leaving the first and second fretting their respective frets. Continue till the first fret, first finger.

The scales should be played daily as part of one's technical-development exercises. One common practice schedule for "serious" musicians is to practice 4 or more hours per day, one hour of which is dedicated to "technique", including scales. The schedule I used was one one-hour session per day of technique - scales, arpeggios, legato exercises, independence exercises, etc. About 20 minutes of that was dedicated to scales. The other three one-hour sessions of practice per day were in practicing current repertoire (music pieces) and in learning new repertoire (music pieces). Theory, ear-training, etc. were in addition.

Most don't have the time or desire to practice that heavily. It is important to determine some balance between technical practice, maintaining existing music and adding new music that works for your level of effort and interest.

For those wanting to start playing scales, I hope that provides one method of getting started with them.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 04-20-2021 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 02:28 PM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Thanks very much Charles, I’m in. I Very much appreciate the time you took to put this together and I will no doubt be re-reading it several times to fully understand the practice drill as I get started in the coming days. I will report back.
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Old 04-20-2021, 03:01 PM
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I want to hear it......................
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Old 04-20-2021, 03:21 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
I want to hear it......................
What, exactly, do you want to hear?
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Old 04-20-2021, 04:00 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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That's an excellent overview of effective scales practice Charles. Thanks for the summary
The only recommendation I would add to this scale practice guidance is to use a metronome. Not a favorite accessory of mine, but I find it super useful for scales. It really helps the coordination between hands, and of course the alternation of the fingers.
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Old 04-20-2021, 04:50 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
The only recommendation I would add to this scale practice guidance is to use a metronome.
A good recommendation. It prevents "cheating" and glossing over problem spots.

How one practices is as important as what one practices. Learning how to effectively practice - to increase skill and ability level - is typically part of a formal education in music performance. Many guitar players don't learn how to effectively practice, which slows and stunts their progress.
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Old 04-20-2021, 05:37 PM
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I would like to hear the complete scale practice. A shortened version would be nice, also.
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Old 04-20-2021, 08:32 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
I would like to hear the complete scale practice. A shortened version would be nice, also.
As it so happens, there is a seemingly endless number of Youtube videos on this very subject. (Had I known, I'd have written much less in the way of an introduction to the scales. Anything further I'd say is likely redundant.)

Here's one of Segovia, himself, playing them:

The scales start at 2:10. The exercises prior to that are also excellent, having played those for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCzr_DubHSk

The entire set, played once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9aThDBU7VQ

A subset - the first four: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTOn4bwsS4

corrected link Played with tremolo (pima): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD0EytYlR3s

And so on, and so on...

Last edited by charles Tauber; 04-21-2021 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:06 PM
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Old 04-21-2021, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
As it so happens, there is a seemingly endless number of Youtube videos on this very subject. (Had I known, I'd have written much less in the way of an introduction to the scales. Anything further I'd say is likely redundant.)

Here's one of Segovia, himself, playing them:

The scales start at 2:10. The exercises prior to that are also excellent, having played those for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCzr_DubHSk

The entire set, played once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9aThDBU7VQ

A subset - the first four: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTOn4bwsS4

Played with tremolo (pima): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQTOn4bwsS4

And so on, and so on...
Wow, Segovia sure plays his slow scales fast ;_)
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Old 04-21-2021, 01:39 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
That's an excellent overview of effective scales practice Charles. Thanks for the summary
The only recommendation I would add to this scale practice guidance is to use a metronome. Not a favorite accessory of mine, but I find it super useful for scales. It really helps the coordination between hands, and of course the alternation of the fingers.
Noted Andre - I hate metronomes :-)
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Old 04-21-2021, 01:41 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Default Segovia Diatonic Major and Minor Scales

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
In 1953, Andres Segovia published a (thin) book of scales titled, Diatonic Major and Minor Scales. It is a set of fingerings for the 24 diatonic scales.

Each note should be played firmly using rest stroke. At first, the plucking should be very conscious and meticulous


Charles, as I tend to play much more with free than rest is there any reason I cannot focus on using free for the scales, or perhaps alternating?

Also, do you think I can use this practice of the scales to begin learning to read? (Naming notes for example)
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Last edited by Wrighty; 04-21-2021 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:08 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Wow, Segovia sure plays his slow scales fast ;_)
The video description states that Segovia was 77 at the time of the recording: he was faster when younger. Listen to some of his earlier recordings.

Also, listen the clear separation of each note regardless of speed, the slight staccato-like articulation. It represents a specific plucking technique that, once attained, one can apply or not as one wishes and the music suggests.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:19 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Charles, as I tend to play much more with free than rest is there any reason I cannot focus on using free for the scales,
In my opinion, yes, there is a reason to play them rest stroke. One of the differences between steel string fingerpicking and classical technique is the use of the rest stroke. It is, in my opinion, an essential tool in the classical guitar toolbox. It is, for example, a technique that allows one to emphasize individual notes more than others, such as bringing out a melody line.

The rest stroke and free stroke have slightly different physical mechanics. The rest stroke movement is largely from the big knuckles at the base of the fingers. The free stroke is much more from the second knuckle. Movement from the big knuckles can provide more power, more volume and can be used to produce a different sound/timbre.

Quote:
or perhaps alternating?
You largely already know how to do free stroke. The development I recommend is in adding and mastering the rest stroke. If you want, you could practice them both with free stroke and rest stroke, but I'd recommend that most of your scale-practicing efforts be spent on rest stroke.

Be clear, however, that you can do whatever pleases you. What classical guitarists recognize as classical guitar playing is a fairly specific thing and involves fairly specific techniques that produce fairly specific sounds. You don't necessarily have to play with that technique or produce that specific sort of sound. However, if you listen to "typical" classical guitar music and want to sound like that and be able to do the things they do, there is a specific path that leads there. If that's what you want, you probably can't deviate too much from that to end up with that.

I asked in another discussion that if two players, one a "typical" steel string player, and the other a "typical" classical player, played the same piece of classical guitar music, what would the differences be in how the piece sounds? You choose what you want to sound like, what are the sounds that come out of the instrument you are playing.

One of the players I like to listen to is Michael Chapdelaine. His background is as a traditionally trained classical guitarist. It provides a good foundation for whatever styles of music one wants to play. He's built on and adapted his classical background to play a variety of music on both classical and steel string guitars. Here's one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu78nxzY3uk

Quote:
Also, do you think I can use this practice of the scales to begin learning to read? (Naming notes for example)
You can, but I don't think it is a particularly "ordered" or "progressive" way of doing so. From a reading perspective, scales are more along the lines of specific notes scattered across the fingerboard.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 04-21-2021 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 04-21-2021, 08:38 AM
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Mr. Tauber;

Thank you.
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