Intonation (yup, me, again)

[guitar george]

Try tuning using the James Taylor method. In order to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of acoustic guitars he tunes his strings flatter than normal. Here is his guide starting with the low E:

E string -12 cents
A string -10 cents
D string -8 cents
G string -4 cents
B string -6 cents
E string -3 cents

[TRU]

Originally Posted by guitar george

Try tuning using the James Taylor method. In order to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of acoustic guitars he tunes his strings flatter than normal. Here is his guide starting with the low E:

E string -12 cents
A string -10 cents
D string -8 cents
G string -4 cents
B string -6 cents
E string -3 cents

Thank you!
Are specific cents something that can only be achieved with a particular type of tuner?

[guitar george]

There are a number of rather expensive tuners available that calibrate to the cent that you can find on the internet. Less expensive Peterson StroboClips have a number of preset sweeteners and likely one of those presets would be the same or similar to the James Taylor settings. I think you can even customize the settings with the StroboClip.

Peterson states on their website about the StroboClips that "The accuracy is within 0.1 cents (1/1000 of one semitone) as with all Peterson Strobe Tuners. An important thing to note is that Peterson Strobe Tuners have ultra high definition displays, so not only are they highly accurate in detecting a note but they have the ability to display that accuracy."

Here's James Taylor tuning his guitar.

[baw3]

You really dont have to spend a lot on a tuner. I use the tc unitune and it works fine. Most of my guitars I have to tune some of the strings slightly flat like J. Taylor says. But not all of them, and it varies with what guitar I'm playing. Generally speaking I usually tune my low E slightly flat with my unitune and the B slightly flat also. Depending on which of my Eastmans I'm playing I sometimes have to tune my High E slightly flat also. I am positive that its not because my nut is to high. It wouldnt hurt to put some graphite in each one of the nut slots either. Napa auto parts stores sells small tubes of it. From time to time I use it especially in the D and G nut slots. If you use a unitune you dont have to go by the cents, you just have to get close to where the center light is going green and you just get used to where you know its in tune.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by TRU

low E goes about a 1/4 note sharp
A string goes about 1/8 of a note
Other appear fine.

This is a 2010 guitar with new bone nut/saddle installed professionally in past 4 months.

Put on a capo if the problem still persists it's got nothing to do with the nut and lowering the action at the saddle may help.

[takamineGD93]

I don't know tecnical stuff. I just play (since 1974).

Most acoustics no matter what they cost I have to tune the b string a tad flat. It is above all four finger G (with the ringfinger on 3 fret b-string) that mess things up. Pushing down the same note in a standard D is not as noticable.

Of the 7 acoustics I have now it's only on my cheapest guitar that I don't have to do this.
Nowing that the fretboard isn't perfect I just live with this.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by TRU

Same thing with capo on 1. Same degree of sharpness
Hmmm.

Probably due to high action at the saddle then. How high is the action on the 6th string 12th fret?

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by TRU

Same thing with capo on 1. Same degree of sharpness
Hmmm.

I think folks have missed this update of yours TRU.

It's the way you are fretting your chords. You may want to have a look at that and also try tempering your tuning a touch. I doubt that there's anything wrong with your guitar.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by TRU

Thank you!
Are specific cents something that can only be achieved with a particular type of tuner?

Peterson tuners contain so-called ‘sweetened’ tunings for various instruments. The ACU ‘sweetened tuning’ is the equivalent of the JT tuning with the same offsets. However, whilst there are those who claim it’s the best thing since the invention of sliced bread loaves, my experience is that, on all my guitars, far from being ‘sweetened’ it sounds decidedly sour. I believe that a system of tuning offsets designed for one builder’s guitars is unlikely to suit every other builder’s guitars, and it’s unreasonable to expect that it would.

When using my Peterson I tune using the EQU (equal temperament) setting, and tweak the E and B strings by ear. Incidentally, the TC Electronics PolyTune/Unitune tuners give equal temperament tuning also.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[RalphH]

The values just seem to high. Out of curiosity, how are you determining its 1/4 of a note? Is it definitely 25 cent?

[Jengstrom]

I’ll add to the pile: most likely the nut, especially if intonation was fine before the nut change.

As for lubrication of the slots, a #2 pencil works fine.

John

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

Put on a capo if the problem still persists it's got nothing to do with the nut and lowering the action at the saddle may help.

Only if you retune the guitar once the capo is put on. If you stay with the open string tuning any nut intonation issues will still be present.

[TRU]

Generally speaking, when set up properly, should all six strings be at the exact same height on their tops???
What I mean is, suppose with minimal pressure you slid a slide (or any straight edge) across them. Should all strings NOT buzz???

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by TRU

Generally speaking, when set up properly, should all six strings be at the exact same height on their tops???
What I mean is, suppose with minimal pressure you slid a slide (or any straight edge) across them. Should all strings NOT buzz???

TRU - This is a totally wrong idea. The fretboard of an acoustic guitar is curved; the curve is called the fretboard radius. The saddle therefore must be curved to match. So, on a well set up guitar the middle strings will tend to sit a little higher than the outside strings. The strings will not be at exactly the same height across their tops, they will form a shallow arch.

I can see that you are a little confused about how your guitar should be set-up, what action and what level of intonation are OK. I really doubt that there is fundamentally anything wrong with your guitar that a minor adjustment could not correct (if anything is needed at all). I suggest that you book a guitar lesson with a local teacher and have them look over your guitar and explain about the set-up and intonation to you in person. After an hour with a teacher I'm sure you would come away with all your questions answered and some technique coaching too!

[EZYPIKINS]

You don't have to buy the Peterson if you don't want to.

Although if you do, allot of your issues will disappear.

Just make sure it is set up by someone using a Peterson or Conn.

Will make things much more manageable.

Sounds like nut too high.