All-Unisons 12-String?

[Brent Hahn]

I just recorded something where I had a repeating acoustic 12-string line in it at first, and then ditched that in favor of a doubled 6-string because I didn't like the lower-register octaves. And I realized that, in general, I find in annoying that you can't play a descending line on a 12 without it splitting at some point.

Does anyone make an all-unison 12? Or could you set up a conventional 12 in all-unisons without having it self-destruct?

[Steve DeRosa]

I think I've found what you're looking for:

http://veilletteguitars.com/acoustic_terz.shtml
http://veilletteguitars.com/acoustic_gryphon.shtml
http://veilletteguitars.com/acoustic_merlin.shtml

- and if you need a less-pricey alternative:

http://veilletteguitars.com/avante_gryphon.shtml

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I think I've found what you're looking for:

Thanks for the links!

I've recorded a guy who had one of those, and his was a higher-register situation. As is the Mexican sawed-off 12-string, whatever those are called. I'm specifically looking for unisons on the fat strings in conventional tuning, if possible.

[gr81dorn]

I think if you tried to string up a standard 12 string guitar with unison strings all the way down, you'd probably increase the tension to a point that would rip the bridge plate through the front of the soundboard ;-) Seriously, though, 12 strings already push the limits as-is... I like the idea, but the guitar would have to be engineered to handle it.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by gr81dorn

I think if you tried to string up a standard 12 string guitar with unison strings all the way down, you'd probably increase the tension to a point that would rip the bridge plate through the front of the soundboard...

I was kinda hoping someone else had tried it first. Like in those submarine movies where they go down and down and down, and the hull starts to creak, and then a few valves pop...

[Stomp]

I have a Spanish Laúd (tenor lute) which is a unison 12-string instrument.

Here's a YT vid:

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I just recorded something where I had a repeating acoustic 12-string line in it at first, and then ditched that in favor of a doubled 6-string because I didn't like the lower-register octaves. And I realized that, in general, I find in annoying that you can't play a descending line on a 12 without it splitting at some point.

Does anyone make an all-unison 12? Or could you set up a conventional 12 in all-unisons without having it self-destruct?

You can always leave the octave strings off the lower register strings.

Don't forget that the Roger McGuinn Martin 7 string only doubles the g string and gives you that taste of a 12 string with a clear low end.

Someone posted a modded Taylor 500 series 8 or 9 string (home mod) where only some of the strings were doubled. Very cool.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Stomp

Here's a YT vid:

Nice!

Originally Posted by DavidE

Someone posted a modded Taylor 500 series 8 or 9 string (home mod) where only some of the strings were doubled. Very cool.

Big Joe Wiliams cobbled a 9-string together, adding unisons for the D, B, and high E.

https://www.discogs.com/Big-Joe-Will.../master/457404

[jemartin]

Sounds interesting to me... I would think that if you were to set it up with light gauge strings and check the Daddario tension calculator app.. you would find that the tensions would be in line. Even trying a mix of medium on the main bass string and then use a light gauge on the octave position (or extra light).
Of course you may have to tune down to keep the tensions under control...
The nut would need some work, but not sure about the saddle. Of course if you use GHS Contact Core Bright Bronze strings, only the core wire touches the saddle anyway so that could be an option without any rework needed. I would love to hear what it sounds like. A jumbo body would handle it well.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by gr81dorn

I think if you tried to string up a standard 12 string guitar with unison strings all the way down, you'd probably increase the tension to a point that would rip the bridge plate through the front of the soundboard ;-) Seriously, though, 12 strings already push the limits as-is... I like the idea, but the guitar would have to be engineered to handle it.

That catastrophic damage was my first thought.

If engineered to handle the tension of an all-unison 12-string would the 2-inch thick steel soundboard even vibrate?

[zombywoof]

I string my 12 string like Gibson sent them out in the early 1960s with a double G but that is as far as I am willing to go.\.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I just recorded something where I had a repeating acoustic 12-string line in it at first, and then ditched that in favor of a doubled 6-string because I didn't like the lower-register octaves. And I realized that, in general, I find in annoying that you can't play a descending line on a 12 without it splitting at some point.

Does anyone make an all-unison 12? Or could you set up a conventional 12 in all-unisons without having it self-destruct?

I would think a carbon fiber guitar manufacturer would be all over this, boasting that only carbon fiber can do this (assuming it can indeed do this--I don't actually know much about CF guitars).

[Wade Hampton]

Let's step back for a moment and ask ourselves whether a doubled unison 12 string really would add more tension to a 12 string compared to what the normal tension load is. Are we actually certain that replacing the high octave strings with unisons straight across will jack the tension higher than it already is? Those high octave strings definitely have a lot of tension of their own.

There are string tension charts available online for some string brands, notably D'Addario. Has anyone gone and checked that and done the math, or has everyone just been assuming that all-unison strings would place more stress on the instrument?

I don't know for certain myself, and maybe all-unison strings really would cause more tension, but it seems like a reasonable question to ask.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Earl49]

My Emerald carbon fiber X20-12 came from Ireland wearing a heavy gauge twelve string set (EJ-37, 54-12) and tuned E-e. (Straight out of the box only one of the unwound B strings needed a tweak. Otherwise the guitar was still in tune after crossing the Atlantic and most of the CONUS). That works out to 336 pounds of tension, versus ~250 for normal light gauge twelve string sets (47-10). Lots of tone, but very hard to play anything but first position cowboy chords. Those strings are actually intended to be tuned down to C or C#, as Leo Kottke does.

I first took off the octaves, leaving essentially a light gauge 54-12 set (~165 pounds) and played it as a six string. Then I put on EJ-38 lights taking the neck back up to 250 pounds. I never had to make a truss rod adjustment for any of these conditions. So if anything out there could handle all unisons, it would be the incredibly strong Emerald.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by DavidE

You can always leave the octave strings off the lower register strings.

Yeah, but the low stuff is specifically what I'm after.

The track I wanted it for -- everyone who's heard it says "Love the 12." And then I say, "A 12 can't do that."