W-I-D-E nut archtops for fingerstyle?

[Backcountry]

Are there any archtops that come to mind with fingerstyle-ish wide nuts?

I know the original Gibson L-1s were 1.87" but have there been other production guitars that were built to that standard—vintage or more modern?

[Steve DeRosa]

As a general rule archtop necks became narrower over time, to facilitate rapid chord changes for both rhythm and chord-melody work during the Big Band era - '37-39 Epiphone Deluxe/Broadway/Triumph models often boasted a 1-9/16" width (a dimension they would not revisit for another 25 years), and even Martin adopted 1-5/8" as standard for their late-30's F- and C-Series archtops - and later acquired slimmer/shallower profiles as electrification became the norm and heavy-gauge strings were phased out in the '50s-60s; that said, the only vintage option that comes quickly to mind are some rarer old D'Angelicos with near-classical width (1-7/8" - 1-15/16") fingerboards, but as expected you're going to pay big-time when and if they ever come up for sale. FWIW if you can survive with a 1-3/4" width one of the all-carved Eastmans - built on the Benedetto model so they lend themselves more readily to a broad range of styles - or the Loar LH-600/700 models (which also have a Mother Maybelle-approved, thick '20s V-neck) might work if you don't have a lotta bucks to spend; if you want to go the custom route, Mark Campellone will build you the all-carved archtop of your dreams starting at a little over $5K - and if you have specific needs and plan on a lifetime keeper, IMO this would be the way to go...

[Livingston]

Eastman archtops are typically 1-3/4" nut width.

[tbeltrans]

This is an interesting topic for me too. I (once again...) appreciate Steve's fountain of information.

Having just inherited some money, maybe Mark Campellone could build an archtop with a 14" body, 24.75" scale, 1 7/8" nut with appropriate string spacing and 2 1/4" saddle width for around $5k. The closest I have heard of to those specs is the now discontinued Martin Taylor Peerless Maestro, though it apparently has a 1 3/4" nut similar to the Eastman that Steve mentioned.

I have to admit though that my Gibson Howard Roberts (Fusion III), though it has a 1 3/4" nut, the string spacing feels wider than other guitars with similar nut width that I have played. I could be perfectly happy with that for a long time too. I don't hear/read much about the Howard Roberts Fusion III, so I guess it must be a real "sleeper", though not really an "archtop" since it is a semi-hollow body like the ES-335.

Tony

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

...Having just inherited some money, maybe Mark Campellone could build an archtop with a 14" body, 24.75" scale, 1 7/8" nut with appropriate string spacing and 2 1/4" saddle width for around $5K...

Can't hurt to ask - the figure quoted is for his base 17" Standard model which, in spite of its modest price, is still a luthier-built instrument that sacrifices absolutely nothing in terms of construction or tone quality (and, quite frankly, makes me wonder why Gibson charges three or more times as much for an L-5C through their Custom Shop - if they even build them anymore). FWIW he does do custom work - check out the Gallery link below - and having played a few over the years (Mandolin Brothers - my former friendly local guitar shop - carried them on a regular basis) I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of his guitars on a sight-unseen/unplayed, commission-build basis:

https://www.mcampellone.com/
https://www.mcampellone.com/gallery/

BTW I just checked, and his base price is now $5495 - IME still extremely reasonable for the level of tone and QC you're getting...

[Backcountry]

Thanks for the info Steve!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Can't hurt to ask - the figure quoted is for his base 17" Standard model which, in spite of its modest price, is still a luthier-built instrument that sacrifices absolutely nothing in terms of construction or tone quality (and, quite frankly, makes me wonder why Gibson charges three or more times as much for an L-5C through their Custom Shop - if they even build them anymore). FWIW he does do custom work - check out the Gallery link below - and having played a few over the years (Mandolin Brothers - my former friendly local guitar shop - carried them on a regular basis) I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of his guitars on a sight-unseen/unplayed, commission-build basis:

https://www.mcampellone.com/
https://www.mcampellone.com/gallery/

BTW I just checked, and his base price is now $5495 - IME still extremely reasonable for the level of tone and QC you're getting...

Thanks Steve. I have had a Campellone in my hands once several years ago. It is owned by a local friend who is a full time musician. I think I could get away with it because:

- I could also sell my Howard Roberts after the Campellone is in my hands and that would probably cover half the cost (or a bit more) of the Campellone, since I really don't need two of this type of guitar.

- I am having some real health issues and my wife tends to be more sympathetic when that happens, not that she has ever stood in the way of yet another guitar.

I would love to have a Campellone built to my specifications. For once, I know exactly what I want in an archtop.

Edit: I just now checked his site and he lists three models, all share these specs:

All models are constructed using North American spruce and maple tonewoods and are offered with the following options:

Body: 16” or 17”
Rim Depth: 3” or 2.25”
Nut Width: 1&11/16” or 1&3/4”
Fingerboard Scale: 24.6”, 25” or 25.5”
Neck: one piece or laminate construction
Finishes: natural, antique natural, amber sunburst, chestnut sunburst, bright or dark cherry sunburst, vintage sunburst, blueburst, wine red.

I will contact and ask him about building something different, but I suspect that the price will go up substantially. Just as I have a problem with buying a new car due to the cost (I have always paid cash for my cars and so far not spent as much as I have on a guitar), even though I could afford it, I would likewise have a problem with spending much over $5k for a guitar. As you (Steve) said, it never hurts to ask.

What I would want different is the 14" lower bout instead of 16" and a wider than 1 3/4" nut. The 24.6" scale and body depth would be fine with me. My Howard Roberts is really comfortable to play, so now I know what I would want - something similar.

Tony

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

...I have had a Campellone in my hands once several years ago. It is owned by a local friend who is a full time musician...

What I would want different is the 14" lower bout instead of 16" and a wider than 1-3/4" nut. The 24.6" scale and body depth would be fine with me. My Howard Roberts is really comfortable to play, so now I know what I would want - something similar...

You might find this of interest:

https://www.soundpure.com/p/campellone-ep-series/11726

Although it's no longer listed as a regular-production model, I'd be inclined to believe that Mark Campellone would be willing to build you an all-acoustic EP15-style guitar (with or without cutaway) on a custom-order/price TBD basis - and if you could live with the standard 1-3/4" neck and 15" body (FYI the 24.6" scale you want was also standard) it would probably reduce the final price significantly...

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

You might find this of interest:

https://www.soundpure.com/p/campellone-ep-series/11726

Although it's no longer listed as a regular-production model, I'd be inclined to believe that Mark Campellone would be willing to build you an all-acoustic EP15-style guitar (with or without cutaway) on a custom-order/price TBD basis - and if you could live with the standard 1-3/4" neck and 15" body (FYI the 24.6" scale you want was also standard) it would probably reduce the final price significantly...

Thanks Steve. I did send Mark my request yesterday, but I would be surprised if he would agree for what I would be willing to pay. I stated the 24.6" scale because he listed that as one of the choices on his site. I think the EP would be an excellent choice, and will mention that when I respond to whatever he replies with.

Thanks...

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Today I received a very nice email from Mark Campellone. He said that he is booked well into the future and can't take on any more custom work right now.

He did recommend another builder, Stephen Holst: http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/archtops.htm

I may contact him, but have not yet seen any examples of his work. For me, playability is higher priority than tone in a guitar. My Howard Roberts is the most playable of this type of guitar I have yet encountered. The Campellone that I tried was very playable, though as I recall, not quite the same as the Howard Roberts.

So I would want to get a sense of the playability. As an example, to me, Martin acoustic guitars seem to have a stiffer feel to them than most Taylors I have encountered. When I asked the luthier I usually bring my guitars to for any work, he said that they each build with a slightly different neck angle. In this case, it is a subtle thing, but for me it makes a difference.

If I were to get one of these custom archtops at some point, I would want it to be as close to my Howard Roberts as possible in terms of playability. A guitar can be very high quality, but still have a stiffer feel than I would want, and depending on the cause, may or may not be correctable with a setup.

Tony

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Today I received a very nice email from Mark Campellone. He said that he is booked well into the future and can't take on any more custom work right now.

He did recommend another builder, Stephen Holst: http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/archtops.htm

I may contact him, but have not yet seen any examples of his work. For me, playability is higher priority than tone in a guitar...

If I were to get one of these custom archtops at some point, I would want it to be as close to my Howard Roberts as possible in terms of playability. A guitar can be very high quality, but still have a stiffer feel than I would want, and depending on the cause, may or may not be correctable with a setup...

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=648561

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=648561

Thanks Steve!

Tony

[Backcountry]

OMG!!! Holst's baritone semi-hollow archtop sample...what a tone!

http://www.pacinfo.com/~sholst/baritone%20mp3.mp3

I'm starting to get GAS pains...thanks Steve!!!

[tbeltrans]

Just a quick update...

Yesterday, I discovered that a local shop (they have a reverb.com store front too) has some Eastman Frank Vignola archtop models in stock. I am interested in the FV-880ce. I had to send an email to set up an appointment, and did get that. When I arrived, they had two FV-880ce models out for me and I saw that they had the less expensive FV-680ce also on the wall.

These all have a 1 3/4" nut with nice comfortable string spacing. They all (880 and 680) have the typical wood bridge as often used on archtops, so it was very easy to lower the action to where I wanted it, making the guitar very easy to play. The nut slots needed no adjustment.

The guitar is very resonant with solid maple b/s and spruce top. The guitar is surprisingly light and therefore, comfortable for long playing sessions. It has a slotted headstock. Since I am comfortable restringing these already, that won't be a problem.

Anyway, I spent some time with these guitars and purchased an FV-880ce. These are very nice and have a surprising acoustic tone that leans more toward an acoustic guitar than what I would expect from an archtop. It has one floating pickup - a Lollar Johnny Smith that sounds very nice and warm. The volume and tone controls are little thumb wheels under the pick guard, easy to manage and out of sight.

I don't see the need to take and post a picture since the guitar is pictured on various sites that sell it, so here it is from Eastman:

https://www.eastmanguitars.com/fv880ce

and a couple of videos...





So now I have the Gibson Howard Roberts semi-hollow and the Eastman FV-880ce. I should be set for a very long time, and am really happy that I was able to obtain such a nice guitar locally instead of mail order from some web site so I could spend some time with it before purchasing to be sure it was right for me. A really cool aspect of this particular Eastman model (and may be true for other models?) is that the acoustic sound is loud and full. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to come across in youtube videos as it does in real life. It really is quite a surprise when you first pick it up and play it. You wouldn't take it to a bluegrass jam session, but it is very comparable to a small body acoustic guitar. Most archtops I have tried have a very mid-range sound because they were designed specifically for that since that sound carries better in a band situation. But this Estman is much more like an acoustic (flat top) guitar acoustically. As such, it could serve as BOTH your acoustic guitar, especially with its wider string spacing typical of an acoustic, and your archtop with its warm plugged in sound. I could easily see it as filling both roles and being the guitar for somebody who only wants one instrument.

So, thanks for the discussion and input in this thread. I now can settle in with what I have for the long haul.

Tony

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Backcountry

Are there any archtops that come to mind with fingerstyle-ish wide nuts?

I know the original Gibson L-1s were 1.87" but have there been other production guitars that were built to that standard—vintage or more modern?

As archtops were primarily aimed at the tenor banjo players in dance bands -who rarely used more than four strings, the necks got thinner, and created a lamentable standard for such things as OMs and 14 fret dreads also aimed at the same market.

However , I have three archtops - a '60s Harmony Monterey H1325, an Eastman AR805, and a 1934 Gibson L-4, all of which have 1 & 3/4" nut-widths, although of course as intended as rhythm instruments the bridge string spacings tend to be rather narrow.