chords over lyrics, how to get rhythm/beats per/bars

[jasperguitar]

I look at songs, mostly chords over lyrics. So, obviously, I must know the melody et all. But many times even though I know the melody, I struggle with how many beats per measure, when does a measure start, et all .. Is there a method, a breakdown method any of you follow to turn the chords over lyrics into music / rhytym / beats per measure et all?

[Glennwillow]

As you note, you have to already know the song to know how many bars or parts of a bar go with each chord. The better you know the song, the easier it is to simply use just chords and lyrics.

When I am laying out and programming a drum track for a drum machine to use with a cover song, I listen to the original recording and count out the beats and mark them on my cheat sheet so I know what I am doing and where to put the drum fills. For me, this is the hardest part of programming a drum track, because it takes a fair amount of time and because sometimes I miscount the beats. It's a challenge, especially for someone new to the guitar or music, in general. Well... it can be a challenge for me, too, and I've been at this near on 60 years.

When I am learning a song, I always play with the original recording so that I really get the feel of how the original artist did the song. That also helps establish where the measures are. I always learn something new when I play with someone else. This approach also helps embed the song in my head a whole lot better.

Best of luck!

- Glenn

[Mandobart]

As a classically trained musician, I grew up reading music notation. The time signature tells you all you need. But once I'd heard the piece a few times I knew how it was supposed to go and didn't pay any attention to the time signature. I knew the beat and tapped my foot to stay in time (and listened to the other players, and watched the conductor).

Most of the music I play now I learn by ear - I don't have the notation or tab. But I still tap my foot. You can too. First pick a song you want to play. Just listen to it. Feel the beat. Tap your foot. You've got to internalize the song, be able to play it entirely in your head including the melody, lyrics, beat, etc. That's what I have to do when there's no written music easily available.

It's a skill just like fretting cleanly, flatpicking, fingerpicking, synchopated strum patterns, etc.

[rick-slo]

Most often pretty straight forward counting out to get beats per measure. Often enough however something can throw one off - even the Beatles "Yesterday"
where the first beat of the next measure is occupied by a tied carry over note from the prior measure. Sometimes one needs to add up beats of a whole phrase
to be sure. Then again there are pieces where the meter changes one or more times within them and that can throw one off.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

I look at songs, mostly chords over lyrics. So, obviously, I must know the melody et all. But many times even though I know the melody, I struggle with how many beats per measure, when does a measure start, et all .. Is there a method, a breakdown method any of you follow to turn the chords over lyrics into music / rhytym / beats per measure et all?

I think you need to post an example of what it is you are looking at, any diagram or transcription of chords and melody or just chords over lyrics should have bar lines. Any chord written above the centre of the bar between the two lines begins on the first beat of the bar and carries on to the end of the bar, if there are two chord symbols equally spaced above a bar then start first chord on 1st beat and change to 2nd chord on the middle beat so that's third beat in 4/4 time.
If you don't know where the first beat of the bar is then tap your foot along to a recording and listen to what the pulses in the rhythm are doing.

[egordon99]

I know exactly what you are talking about. Most songs I have no problems playing from just the chords/lyrics but sometimes I just can't get it right.

A recent example for me was the Waterboys' "Whole of the Moon".

I ended up buying the piano/vocal sheet music (digitally through MusicNotes) and BAM! Seeing the written notes/measures/etc made it trivial for me to play. It helps that I'm also a piano player and a decent sight reader.

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

I think you need to post an example of what it is you are looking at, any diagram or transcription of chords and melody or just chords over lyrics should have bar lines...

On the contrary - most of the chords over lyrics I find online don't have bar lines. Ultimate guitar and CowboyLyrics are two sources I use when looking for something. The chords are occasionally misplaced relative to the lyrics as well.

You get what you pay for, and both those resources are free.

I find listening / playing along with the song, with those chord/lyric notes in hand, can help sort out timing and pinpoint any mis-placed chords.

[Dave Hicks]

And every now and then somebody does something sneaky. We were working on Dry Branch Fire Squad's version of Orphan Train, and they left out a couple of beats in the chorus to push the vocal along.

I occasionally put some work into Bert Jansch's Blackwater Side - I can never get the timing variations quite right.

Old-time blues players were notorious for adding or deleting beats.

D.H.

[egordon99]

The worst thing about free chord charts are when they do something like:

F. A#. F

Or

D. D/Gb Cbm7


Eek!

[nowgypsy]

I find that the on-line chords and lyrics post are just a staring point. I don't read music notation so if I am n a hurry to learn a song I go on-line for a starting point. I seldom try to play a cover exactly like the original so I don't know about bars and beats. I just try to arrive at a version that sounds good. Just my cent and a half.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

I look at songs, mostly chords over lyrics. So, obviously, I must know the melody et all. But many times even though I know the melody, I struggle with how many beats per measure, when does a measure start, et all .. Is there a method, a breakdown method any of you follow to turn the chords over lyrics into music / rhytym / beats per measure et all?

Jasper, having read all the responses here, I think I can sum this up as the "breakdown method" being listening to the song with the chord over lyric sheet in your hand and following the two along together - with a pen poised for action!

There's no standard system for writing chords over lyrics, so the spacing of the chords is rarely accurate in terms of the lyrics, and sometimes the chords are just plain wrong! So you may well want to make your own notes on the chord/lyric sheet as you listen to the song. This will also give your listening a purpose and really improve your listening skills - something that will serve you well in the future.