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  #16  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:42 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Originally Posted by fazool View Post
Current thinking in quantaum physics is that there is actually no such thing as mass. That which we call "mass" is actually made up of energy. As you get smaller and smaller (materials to elements to chemicals to atoms to suabtomic particles and smaller and smaller, the smallest is believed to not be "mass" but actually be concentrated energy.

Energy is not a "thing" and one theory is that energy is the manifestation of thought.
Yes, through Einstein, energy is mass and mass is energy.

Energy is a manifestation of thought sounds outside the realm of science, however.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:48 PM
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Energy is not a "thing" and one theory is that energy is the manifestation of thought.
We have read something similar, however, is it really a theory?

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."

Just wondering if it has moved beyond an idea, and if so, the work to support it.
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Last edited by Basalt Beach; 07-08-2018 at 02:55 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tico View Post
While I understand curiosity and respect the scientific method, I'm also okay with unanswered questions.

Just because my mind can generate a question doesn't mean there is an answer.
Or maybe in 2 or 200 years sufficient evidence will be known to support an answer.

Sometimes the answer is, at this time nobody knows for sure.
Agree. The desire to ask the question is only surpassed by the psyche's impatience to answer it. In that small area of humanity's collective make-up also lies an imagination of great influence on our answers, and a logic that imagination often bullies into capitulation.
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fazool View Post
Current thinking in quantum physics is that there is actually no such thing as mass. That which we call "mass" is actually made up of energy. As you get smaller and smaller (materials to elements to chemicals to atoms to subatomic particles and smaller and smaller, the smallest is believed to not be "mass" but actually be concentrated energy...
I tried this argument at last month's Weight Watchers meeting...

Didn't work...
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  #20  
Old 07-08-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
...Energy is a manifestation of thought sounds outside the realm of science, however.
Define "science".

I believe when you get down to the very nature of existence, reality, time, etc. there is no distinction and no such thing as "science" or "non-science"
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  #21  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basalt Beach View Post
We have read something similar, however, is it really a theory?

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."

Just wondering if it has moved beyond an idea, and if so, the work to support it.
You might be correct. "theory" is not the correct word. "idea" is a better word for it.
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  #22  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
...
Energy is a manifestation of thought sounds outside the realm of science, however.
Actually, there is significant scientific research within the cognitive science discipline concerning whether thought (or more broadly, consciousness) is simply an emergent property of certain combinations of matter, energy and associated physical, chemical and biological processes. Non-dualistic and quasi-reductionist in nature, and still tied somewhat to its philosophical underpinnings, it is a relatively young area of research, and still has a long way to go.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:12 PM
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Just as an FYI, there are some large forums focused on science worth checking out for anyone interested in getting a robust sampling of scientific opinions. For example check out these.
https://www.scienceforums.net
http://www.thescienceforum.com
https://www.physicsforums.com
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Actually, there is significant scientific research within the cognitive science discipline concerning whether thought (or more broadly, consciousness) is simply an emergent property of certain combinations of matter, energy and associated physical, chemical and biological processes. Non-dualistic and quasi-reductionist in nature, and still tied somewhat to its philosophical underpinnings, it is a relatively young area of research, and still has a long way to go.
Yes, I know, but thought being an emergent property is very different than energy being a manifestation of thought.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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Here is one thought about the universe

BTW for you performers that do covers and play for other people, this one is always a big hit.


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  #26  
Old 07-08-2018, 04:09 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
Yes, I know, but thought being an emergent property is very different than energy being a manifestation of thought.
Yes, they are different. I was speaking of thought as an emergent property of certain combinations of matter, energy and associated processes. You are speaking of possible emergent properties of thought. And, the underlying contextual issue is whether either is subject to or capable of scientific inquiry.

Two examples:

1) I choose (through thought) to learn to play a certain song on my guitar. Through actions and events, I learn the song and play it. That song, with its certain melody, harmony, rhythm and other attributes, and the underlying matter and energy manipulations, is manifested in the physical universe from my thought and action.

2) I am able to manifest/form/create new energy or matter from my thought (not the energy or matter from which the thought arose, if any). Again, this occurs in the physical universe.

Either set of events would be empirically testable, at least in theory, and are thus subject to scientific inquiry.

Do emergent properties include attendant emergent capabilities?

Last edited by sdelsolray; 07-08-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyghthawk View Post
No one knows. I suspect the answer is unknowable. It is worthwhile to explore the (fill in the blank) for knowledge. Chasing the unknowable is more dubious in its worth. No insult intended.
Could be, but many things we didn't understand in the past seemed unknowable, and now we understand them very well. I think as long as we're fine with not knowing, and continuing to seek knowledge, we are in a good place.

When people make knowledge claims about things which they cannot possibly know, I think we get into very troublesome ground.
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
many things we didn't understand in the past seemed unknowable, and now we understand them very well.
I think that's what makes science so fascinating. Scientists are undeterred by the seemingly unknowable... gives them something to ponder and research.
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:57 PM
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Back to the OP: what I find amazing about the universe's existence is the mathematical nature of it. In particular, the absolute need for all of these forces to be at just the right level and balance for our universe to exist.

Take that for what it's worth. Which came first: the chicken or egg?
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  #30  
Old 07-08-2018, 06:12 PM
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There are a lot of great books on physics. If you want an excellent explanation on the creation of the universe get Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson's books "Astrophysics For People In A Hurry" and then read "Welcome To The Universe". Dr. Tyson is really the closest thing to a rock star in modern science. If you have a true interest in the creation of the universe, these books should get you hooked on Dr. Tyson and his down-to-earth explanations of scientific concepts. Afterwards you can certainly move on to quantum theory from a more scientific/mathematic approach if you like.
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