Melodybe for intonation issues?

[Jimi2]

I recently recorded a solo fingerstyle song in which the 6th string is tuned down to B, but with the guitar not set up for that tuning, notes up the neck (7,8,10) are poorly intonated. Is it feasible to use Melodyne Essentials (I got a copy with Pro Tools) to fix this? I’m not strumming chords, but there may be some overlap from other notes ringing out. I’ve never used any auto tune software before.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

I recently recorded a solo fingerstyle song in which the 6th string is tuned down to B, but with the guitar not set up for that tuning, notes up the neck (7,8,10) are poorly intonated. Is it feasible to use Melodyne Essentials (I got a copy with Pro Tools) to fix this? I’m not strumming chords, but there may be some overlap from other notes ringing out. I’ve never used any auto tune software before.

Melodyne's pretty amazing, and can indeed do what you are suggesting (you can even use it to correct wrong notes), BUT, you will likely hear some phasing sound that you may not like. I have used Melodyne a few times on solo guitar, but usually in a very targeted way, like selecting and correcting a single note that was off. If it goes by quickly, the phasing sound may not be noticeable, but applying it to an entire track, you probably won't like (but you can always give it a try and see if it works in your specific case). I've had the best luck using it when I had other instruments as well, which also tends to mask any artifacts.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Melodyne's pretty amazing, and can indeed do what you are suggesting (you can even use it to correct wrong notes), BUT, you will likely hear some phasing sound that you may not like. I have used Melodyne a few times on solo guitar, but usually in a very targeted way, like selecting and correcting a single note that was off. If it goes by quickly, the phasing sound may not be noticeable, but applying it to an entire track, you probably won't like (but you can always give it a try and see if it works in your specific case). I've had the best luck using it when I had other instruments as well, which also tends to mask any artifacts.

Thanks, what I was thinking was that I would just apply it to those specific bass notes that are off, as the they just occur a few times in the song. Sounds like it should be effective for that.

[b1j]

I have the version one down from the top (Editor?). I bought it during one of those end of year sales, like the one that expires tomorrow. Besides the sale price at the time, I was drawn in by the claim that it can work with a polyphonic instrument, like piano or guitar.

Sample of one only, and I don’t have the learned hand of some here, so it’s probably just me, because I chose to tune all the notes at once. Very bad idea. Completely ruined the track. Humorously bad.

My uninformed opinion is that an acoustic guitar is not strictly a polyphonic instrument making separate, discrete notes. There’s resonance, sustain, and — most of all — overtones. It gives Melodyne more than it can handle.

No doubt I misused the tool by the shotgun approach. But after that, I decided to save Melodyne for one vocal track at a time.

But the sniper aim you have in mind might just help with one out-of-intonation note at a time on one string. Just make sure you don’t follow me down the Tune ‘em All rabbit hole.

[runamuck]

Yes, Melodyne is excellent for fixing what you're describing.

It's a much better app than any other intonation correction software I've used, including Autotune. It's more transparent, you can manipulate notes with more precision in pitch and time and you can even eliminate harmonics produced by the fundamental. Correcting intonation is just one of its features.

[DupleMeter]

I do things like that all the time in Melodyne. I'm not sure you're going to be able to do it without the polyphonic version (studio?) unless there is absolutely no overlap, otherwise you'll tune overlapping notes that you didn't mean to nudge. That's the real power of the polyphonic detection, it leaves other notes unaltered.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I do things like that all the time in Melodyne. I'm not sure you're going to be able to do it without the polyphonic version (studio?) unless there is absolutely no overlap, otherwise you'll tune overlapping notes that you didn't mean to nudge. That's the real power of the polyphonic detection, it leaves other notes unaltered.

No expert here, but it seems to me that an overtone from a note on one string can be the note played on the other string. All I know is, with acoustic guitar it was a tiger by the tail for me — more than my limited skill could master. Perhaps with the right training, I could eventually shape one note at a time without collateral damage. But I’m content to stick to monophonic sources like a vocal.

Editor is polyphonic. If you go to Studio, you can work on multiple tracks at once.

New thought: I’ll start a new thread so I don’t hijack this one

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by b1j

No expert here, but it seems to me that an overtone from a note on one string can be the note played on the other string. All I know is, with acoustic guitar it was a tiger by the tail for me — more than my limited skill could master. Perhaps with the rest that training, I could eventually shape one note at a time without collateral damage. But I’m content to stick to monophonic sources like a vocal.

Editor is polyphonic. If you go to Studio, you can work on multiple tracks at once.

New thought: I’ll start a new thread so I don’t hijack this one

When you get good at it, Melodyne can be very transparent (as long as you don't push it too far). I use it to fix parts in group/choral vocals, wrong notes in piano & guitar chords. It works great. It just takes time & you have to be very mindful of note transitions & pitch drift, & make sure to edit those along with the tonal changes you make.

I just had a project where one singer (of 10) sang the wrong word at the end of a song. i was able to use Melodyne to isolate that singer & mute her part on that syllable, fading back into the end of the word where the syllables matched with the other singers. This was a 3 mic setup for 10 singers.

It's kind of crazy what you can do when you finesse things. It's scary how unnoticeable it can be.

[Jimi2]

So it looks like Melodyne Editor is the least expensive package that can do polyphony. Can anyone confirm this? It sounds like I might need this capability, as the song in question is one track, but probably has some notes ringing out over the bass notes I want to correct.

Looks like I can upgrade to Editor for $149 if I do it before their sale ends today.

[wbajzek]

If you're tuned down, the string is a little slack anyway, so I would bet you could bend the notes down a bit (fret the note and gently tug the string towards the bridge) to get them in tune. Have you tried that?

$149 or whatever seems like a lot to fix a couple of notes that are a little bit off.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by wbajzek

If you're tuned down, the string is a little slack anyway, so I would bet you could bend the notes down a bit (fret the note and gently tug the string towards the bridge) to get them in tune. Have you tried that?

$149 or whatever seems like a lot to fix a couple of notes that are a little bit off.

I think he's wanting to fix an existing recording. But yeah, sometimes, you just have to say oops, and re-do the recording after tuning up.

[wbajzek]

I leapt to the conclusion that it's a home recording. But if not, I suppose my suggestion could be more expensive. Oops!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by wbajzek

I leapt to the conclusion that it's a home recording. But if not, I suppose my suggestion could be more expensive. Oops!

Yeah, you never know why/when you might need this. I had a track on my christmas CD (covid project), where I had completed the guitar track, no click, and had violin and cello overdubbed on it. There was one spot where the strings sounded really sour. Drove me nuts because they sounded fine by themselves. I used melodyne on them, and that didn't help. The guitar also sounded fine by itself. Finally checked the guitar with Melodyne, and I had 1 bass note that just got pulled slightly sharp in that spot. Not even noticeable with the solo guitar, but with the added strings, yuck. Since our ear tends to go with the bass, that made the strings all sound flat. Didn't want to have to re-record the whole thing, and I couldn't really punch in just that part of the guitar at that point. Corrected just that one note on the guitar in Melodyne, and all was well!

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

So it looks like Melodyne Editor is the least expensive package that can do polyphony. Can anyone confirm this? It sounds like I might need this capability, as the song in question is one track, but probably has some notes ringing out over the bass notes I want to correct.

Looks like I can upgrade to Editor for $149 if I do it before their sale ends today.

Yes, I just looked at their offerings, Editor is the first tier to get polyphony.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, you never know why/when you might need this. I had a track on my christmas CD (covid project), where I had completed the guitar track, no click, and had violin and cello overdubbed on it. There was one spot where the strings sounded really sour. Drove me nuts because they sounded fine by themselves. I used melodyne on them, and that didn't help. The guitar also sounded fine by itself. Finally checked the guitar with Melodyne, and I had 1 bass note that just got pulled slightly sharp in that spot. Not even noticeable with the solo guitar, but with the added strings, yuck. Since our ear tends to go with the bass, that made the strings all sound flat. Didn't want to have to re-record the whole thing, and I couldn't really punch in just that part of the guitar at that point. Corrected just that one note on the guitar in Melodyne, and all was well!

Yeah, the inquiry was for a recording I did at home a couple of weeks ago. The problem is that I’d run into the same intonation issues again, as the song involves tuning the sixth string E down to B, which sounds great open, but gets really funky/sharp up the neck. I use a lot of different tunings too, so getting a setup for this one would likely cause issues in others. I’ve also got a song from a couple of years ago I’d like to fix up (intonation and tuning), but would rather not take the time to relearn it, so I went ahead and purchased Editor while it was still on sale. Seemed worth it; now I’ll have to figure out how to use it.