Long-time player - first serious purchase. Advice please!

[elninobaby]

Originally Posted by *Sundance*

One question I have about the Furchs is about the body sizes. Is there much difference between the Grand Auditorium and the OM? Would one suit be better than the other?

I just ran across this page at the Furch website. Below the photos of the guitar sizes, there’s a fantastic comparative chart with all the dimensions. A great reference.


https://furchguitars.com/us/features...nd-dimensions/

The site also has aural comparisons of many different Furch models to other brands.

https://furchguitars.com/us/features/have-a-listen/

Hours of good fun here, IMO!

[Macpage]

Originally Posted by *Sundance*

One question I have about the Furchs is about the body sizes. Is there much difference between the Grand Auditorium and the OM? Would one suit be better than the other?

Maybe two considerations to be taken as generalizations. First, most GA's are going to have a little more output and bass reach unless the OM is a deeper body. This comes into play if you are going to be flat picking, energetically strumming, and perhaps playing unamplified at venues. With a choice of cedar top and fingerstyle, you may not be in these situations which allows you to go to the smaller OM and get a little more comfort, especially if playing seated. Many choose a cedar dread to fit in the above situations if enjoying this tone wood.

Second, I have found that if you are tall and play on the higher frets seated a standard depth OM with cut away "may" present a little too close to the body. This is the case for me and results in me hunching over and the guitar sliding in my lap. A GA, deeper body OM, or standard OM without cut away solve this issue, and they all present nicely for "me". Of course, everyone is unique which is why the audition trip you have considered is so valuable.

If one is unsure even after playing both GA/OM sizes and the specifications/comfort are there for both, I would always suggest the GA. It's awful hard to get that output back unamplified if you are on the fence, but OM does seem to be the reasonable choice for what you have stated if your auditions agree.

You did note spruce tops, and the nice thing is that a Furch or Eastman dealer should have both on hand to audition. The Yamaha you mention are very nice, and I do have a spruce model presently. However, other posters have noted that availability in your location is very scarce, and it's not much better in the US. It might be hard to get an audition of one but worth it if you get the chance.

Best,

Mac

[SecondCity]

I have an Eastman AC422ce, which is a spruce/rosewood GA, basically their take on the Taylor 414. For the price (I paid well under $500 used) it’s all solid wood and, to me at least, sounds astonishingly good, although I’m very much on the less experienced side.

I used to live in Chicago, and would occasionally tool around at the Chicago Music Exchange, which has an incredible selection. The Taylor 322ce 12-fret absolutely blew me away. I still regret not taking it home and finding the money later. Unbelievably comfortable and sounded fantastic, especially when finger picked. It might be worth trying to find one to try.

[deg123]

I went through a very similar upgrade a couple of months ago and it sounds like I have a similar playing style; mostly finger picking, a lot of travis style song accompaniment but also finger-style solos and some strumming (with and without a pick). I was upgrading from a Tanglewood I've had for 20 years but had a bit of spare cash available to upgrade. I'd set my budget a bit higher, at £1500.

Being in Northern Ireland (and also during a lockdown) there wasn't a big choice locally, so I decided to try online. I originally decided to buy a Furch or Larrivee based on recommendations from this forum and came across Richard's Guitars in Stratford on Avon. The Furch I initially settled on was out of stock, so after discussing it with John and Rikki I was recommended to try an Auden Artist Chester with similar specs to the Furch Yellow I was looking at (GA shape, All Solid, Rosewood back and sides, Cedar top). Auden are a English company. All guitars are hand made, initially in their workshop in China but finished off in the workshop in England. The model I bought had a 45mm nut width, which is a custom range built for Richard's guitars. I think the standard range is 43mm, which was too narrow for me personally.

I'd highly recommend the Auden, but I'd also recommend you call Richard's Guitars. They also stock a full range of Eastman, Furch and Dowina (which is another European Guitar maker I hadn't heard of but look to be excellent guitars and great value). If you look at Richard's Website and Youtube channel there are lots of really good videos of most of the guitar models. Athough the guitar I bought was around the £1.5k mark there are a lot of other models within your price range (especially if you don't want a Rosewood back and sides) All the guys are really helpful and you will get 14 days to try out the guitar or return it.

I ended up buying the Cedar/Rosewood version. When it arrived we temporarily came out of lockdown and the music stores re-opened. I absolutely loved the tone and playability of the Auden, but before I committed to keep it I visited some local stores to try out a few other guitars (mostly Taylors and Eastmans but also a few Martins and Lowdens, some well above my price range). I discovered a few things on these visits:

1. I needed to go well above £2.5k to get a similar build quality to the Auden from Taylor or Martin.
2. Sound wise the Auden was so much better than any of the Taylor Cedar Models I played
3. Although I originally thought I wanted Cedar I actually preferred the Spruce Models.
4. The Eastman guitars were also great value for the money, but just didn't quite compare to the Auden for me.

Because I preferred the Spruce models I played in the shop I then actually ordered the exact same model of Auden with a Spruce Top, with the aim of comparing them side by side. The store were happy to extend the return period of my first guitar until I had a chance to compare them. Although the Cedar was slightly more responsive to light finger picking, overall the Spruce was more of an all rounder and responded better to strumming so I ended up returning the Cedar model. Both are so responsive and resonant, with an amazing bottom end and I would have been happy with either.

Apologies for the lengthy post, but in summary I'd recommend:

- If you could possibly extend your budget I found that there was significantly more choice on those high end guitars between £1000 and £1500.

- Don't rule out a Spruce Top. You will have much more choice and as a fingerstyle guitar the Spruce/Rosewood Auden Is by far the best I have ever played and makes me want to pick up the guitar as often as I can.

- Don't rule out an online purchase. Most people will recommend trying a guitar first, but if you know what you're looking for and do a bit of research (including listening to online sound samples), buying online with a returns option gives you the chance to play it for a long time at at home and compare it with your current guitar.

- Definitely consider talking to the guys at Richard's guitars. You can buy with complete confidence and return it if it doesn't suit. You'll also get great advice with no pressure.

- Consider one of the lesser known models eg Auden or Dowina. You will probably get much more guitar for your money.

Enjoy the search !

David

[Bob from Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by deg123

Apologies for the lengthy post..

Apology not accepted!

That was a great post Dave. Thanks for sharing your experience. Richard's sounds like a good shop.

[*Sundance*]

There's a lot of really great information here so thanks very much to everyone who has replied.

David, it's really interesting to hear that you went through a similar process recently and I am definitely intrigued by the Auden range. I had already looked at the Furchs on the Richard's Guitars site but wasn't aware of the Auden guitars, so I'm now getting my head round the different models available with 45mm nut. If anything, the Audens look more visually appealing, probably due to the transparent pickguard.

I also hadn't realised how easy it is to try them out and return them within 14 days so that does open up more options for me.

I do have a couple of further questions...

The Auden neo range is more in my price range. They look great but I haven't really seen many independent reviews of them and wonder how they compare to the artist models?

Also, I'm not really looking for an electro-acoustic, but I do like the look of some of those models. Even if I never intend plugging in, is there any disadvantage having that option? I suppose in my head I just like the idea of a simple acoustic instrument but I imagine having electrics included doesn't really make a difference?

The same could probably be said for the cutaway - it's not something I am really looking for but if a particular guitar ticks all the other boxes, there's no real disadvantage to having it, right?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Dowina guitars *look* beautiful too, so I'm just trying to find find out more about them as well!

[deg123]

Sundance, I didn't get a chance to play the Neo range so can't really comment too much. I suspect the differences are mainly cosmetic. From the description the main differences seem to be:
- AA instead of AAA Top
- Matt finish rather than gloss

However the key difference for me would be that they don't seem to have a Rosewood option; they are all Mahogany back and sides. For me I just love the rich overtones of the Rosewood guitars I played - although the Mahogany Auden's do also get really good reviews.

There is a review from Richard's website on this link you may find useful from someone who bought both the Neo and the Artist:

https://rguitars.co.uk/collections/a...cedar-rosewood

In terms of the electro acoustic, there is absolutely no disadvantage! I also don't play plugged in but I have tried it and it sounds good to me (although I don't have much to compare it against) The Brad clark pick up on the Auden get's excellent reviews and it is very discrete, so no external controls or plastic cut outs at the side.

I also prefer a simple traditional acoustic guitar look so I bought the non-cutaway model purely for the appearance. I think most models come with both options. I doubt a cutaway make much difference to the tone, but I'm sure others may have different opinions on this.

One thing to be aware of if you do end up buying from Richard's, it can take a week or two for delivery, as they do put all guitars through a full set up process. And that really showed on both the guitars I got. They were perfect! I'm not sure how much of that was down to the original build or the setup.

I agree the Dowina guitars really look beautiful. I would love to have had the chance to play those and the Furch, but I am totally happy with the Auden and don't have any regrets.

Feel free to PM me if I can help with any other queries.

[*Sundance*]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but since I posted this earlier in the year I have still been researching as well as trying to persuade my other half that spending this amount on a guitar is justified. I do have a big birthday coming up soon

I have decided I would like a cedar-top, GA body shape and pickup, so I have a shortlist of:

Furch Blue
Dowina Sol (Chardonnay)
Dowina Ceres (Cabernet)

These are all available with pickup for about £1100 which is probably my maximum budget.

The Furch has mahogany back & sides, the Sol is walnut and the Ceres is rosewood. From everything I've read and listened to, I think rosewood would be my preferred choice but I'm open to opinions on the others options, especially walnut. I play mostly folk songs with travis-style fingerpicking.

Aesthetically, I think the Dowina guitars look nicer, especially with the clear pickguards. However, Richard's guitars told me they could remove the pickguard from a guitar if I wanted.

Can anyone offer any advice about these guitars? Furch seem to be more popular and I've read so many good things about them. I would have no concerns buying a Furch. Dowina don't seem so well known, which may even be a good thing, but it's hard to really get good independent opinions on them. I would really appreciate it if anyone is able to advise on how Dowina compares with Furch.

At the moment, my preference is the Dowina Ceres GACE. I think it looks beautiful, with more elegant inlay and binding, and, of course, the clear pickguard which I love.

EDIT: I was quite tempted by the Eastman E2 OM at half the price. Although it looks like a fantastic guitar, I doubt it is quite in the same league as Furch/Dowina and, since this will probably be my once-in-a-lifetime serious guitar purchase, I'm not sure I would feel that the Eastman is my ultimate dream guitar.

[Aimelie]

Have you considered the CNR system in all Furch guitars and voiced top wood in contrast to Dowina? Those two things weigh fairly heavily in the balance to my mind.

That said, those Dowina’s are beautiful—I would love to play one someday. I certainly can see why you are drawn to them.

Back when I ordered my own Furch, I had settled on a Blue Plus (cedar/mahogany…very hard, very thin gloss finish top which improves tone according to Petr Furch), but my dear husband went one better (as you can see in my post signature space).

No regrets here.

[Bookstorecowboy]

I can't recommend Eastman acoustics. Know that I have two of their guitars and love them -- but they are electrics. I tried out every Eastman acoustic there was in a local store, including their very top of the line (not available in the US, I think), and I was distinctly not impressed. I brought along my Yamaha and my Taylor and compared them, and they weren't even close. The Yamaha and Taylor were far superior. Funny thing is that the shop owner sells tons of Eastmans and agreed with me. He thought it was absurd but here in China people like them because hey they're Chinese (and it's next to impossible to find a real Taylor or Martin or Santa Cruz or Bourgeois or whatever unless you know what you are doing, and most Chinese buyers are pretty new to the guitar and don't).

[*Sundance*]

Originally Posted by Aimelie

Have you considered the CNR system in all Furch guitars and voiced top wood in contrast to Dowina? Those two things weigh fairly heavily in the balance to my mind.

That said, those Dowina’s are beautiful—I would love to play one someday. I certainly can see why you are drawn to them.

Back when I ordered my own Furch, I had settled on a Blue Plus (cedar/mahogany…very hard, very thin gloss finish top which improves tone according to Petr Furch), but my dear husband went one better (as you can see in my post signature space).

No regrets here.

Thanks Aimelie!

I had noticed the CNR system and voicing on the Furchs but, to be honest, I don't know much about what these mean and how important they are. Perhaps they are much more significant than I realise!

[Aimelie]

Originally Posted by *Sundance*

Thanks Aimelie!

I had noticed the CNR system and voicing on the Furchs but, to be honest, I don't know much about what these mean and how important they are. Perhaps they are much more significant than I realise!

Well the first is a question of stability over the long term (something to consider when speaking of a “guitar of a lifetime”) , the second being how to get the best sound out of the top wood (and who wouldn’t want that? ).

Here are a couple videos about the CNR system:






There is less information concerning their proprietary method for top voicing except to say that they take empirical measurements and remove small amounts of wood from the tops’ undersides until they reach their objective for best sound quality.

I hope this helps! (And, having looked again at Dowina, I must say they sure are pretty.)



ETA: Have you considered possibly choosing a Blue Plus without an installed pickup? That should get you back down to your price range and a pickup can always be added later on. Just a thought…

[rko]

Originally Posted by *Sundance*

Hi,

I have just joined the forum as I am looking for advice about buying a new guitar which, for me, will be a major purchase and my first venture beyond low budget models.

I hope to spend up to £1000 or thereabouts. Less would be better but the most important thing is to get the right guitar so I am prepared to be a bit flexible with the budget. For me this is almost a once in a lifetime opportunity and my hope is that I will have an instrument which sounds, feels and plays significantly better than any previous guitar I have owned.

I am happy to buy a used guitar if it means getting the best quality for my money.

I know my budget isn't really high end but I like to think that I can find something which will be a big improvement over my previous guitars and which will bring a smile to my face when I play it!

Here is some background:

I have been playing for over 30 years, but mostly just for myself. I don't really perform so have no need for a pickup. I play mainly fingerstyle with a wee bit of strumming, usually stuff like Paul Simon, Dylan and, more recently, some songs by The Tallest Man on Earth. I like to do a lot of Travis-style fast picking and try to sing along as I play. I never use a pick these days and prefer strumming with my thumb and back of my fingers when not fingerpicking. It's just a habit I got into and now find using a pick awkward.

I currently own a Simon & Patrick SP6 with cedar top and wild cherry sides which I bought about 13 years ago. It was (and still is) the best and most expensive guitar I have ever bought but although I generally like it, I have a few frustrations with it and I feel the time has come for me to move on to something better which is more suited to the way I play.

I'm not very experienced with different types of acoustic guitars so I've been doing a lot of research on this forum, and elsewhere, to try and understand the features I should be looking for. Unfortunately I do not have access to any local guitar shops (even pre-lockdown) as I live on a remote Scottish island. If I can manage to make a shortlist, I hope eventually I can go to the mainland and try them out before I decide.

Based on what I've learned, and my experience with the SP6, here are some thoughts I have on what I should look for. I know a lot of this is subjective, but I would appreciate any advice on these points if possible.

Body Size
My current guitar is a dreadnought but I'm thinking an OM or GC size would suit my fingerstyle playing better? Not really looking for a cutaway model.

Woods
I like the mellow sound of the cedar top on my SP6 and am thinking of sticking with cedar. I don't want to rule out spruce altogether but, to my ears, it sometimes sounds a bit too bright and trebly. Maybe I just haven't heard the right guitars though. I am not sure about the back and sides and am open to advice.

Nut width/String Spacing
This is probably my biggest issue with the SP6. My fingers aren't fat but I would prefer a bit more space for my fretting hand. I find it a squeeze to play even a simple A chord perfectly and often find in general that my fingers will inadvertently touch adjacent strings during play. I would love to feel that each note is ringing out cleanly. My understanding is that the SP6 has a 1.72 inch nut width so I am looking at guitars with 1.75" or wider, as long as the neck isn't uncomfortably chunky (I still want to be able to play the 6th string with my thumb when necessary)!

Some models I've been considering (in no particular order)
Yamaha LL series (Engelmann spruce rather than cedar, so maybe too bright?)
Furch OM/GC CM (Love the look of the 'Yellow' models with clear pickguards but these are maybe out of my price range)
Taylors (Really unfamiliar with the models as I have always considered them out of my budget. Are the cheaper models worth considering?)

TLDR/Summary
Apologies for the long post. In summary, I am looking for help to find a great guitar to suit my folk, fingerstyle type of playing. It has to be significantly better than my current Simon & Patrick SP6 cedar-top and hopefully no more than £1000 in price.

Many thanks for any advice you can offer!

At £1000, I would look at maybe not the big 3 or 4 brands, but something considered to be a step down. In my opinion, paying £1000 for an Eastwood, or even a Breedlove would likely be a better sounding instrument than would a £1000 Martin or Taylor. And £1000 wouldn’t be in the ballpark for Gibsons, Collings, Santa Cruz, etc.

[MisterOM]

I am on the hunt for something very similar to you. One other specification you may want to consider is string spacing at the bridge. I too play mostly fingerstyle, and I have somewhat large hands. I have found that I am most comfortable with 2 1/4" spacing for my right hand. Many guitars, even with 1.75" nut width, have spacing closer to 2 1/8 or 2 5/32. I think Taylor is 2 3/16 but I can't say for sure.

This has limited my choices greatly. Sure, I can try to get by and adjust to the spacing as most folks do. But as I age I just feel like I don't want to work hard at this, so I'm sticking to my 1.75 nut - 2 1/4 string spacing specs.

Best of luck in finding a guitar that reaches out and grabs you!

Steve W

[Jamolay]

We have a store in Denver that sells mostly Dowina guitars. I am too much of a beginner to have done them justice and I haven’t played a Furch to compare.

The Dowinas are very nice, the cedar really shines. They seemed a bit bright for me in general. I still liked them, but I am a fan of buying used. You can get a lot more guitar for your money.

I have an entry level Larrivee OM-2, which is the no frills OM-3. Used, you could find a lovely Larrivee for your budget.

In my limited experience fooling around in the store full of Darwin’s guitars, there definitely was a significant difference between there lower and and higher end guitars. If you go that rout, I would recommend not getting electronics unless necessary and getting the highest end you can.