Decisions, decisions....Help please!

[AZ715]

Hi Everyone,

I've decided to brave demonstrating my ignorance of all things electronic by asking for help with several decisions I'm hoping to make. Having searched AGF for similar discussions, I'm still left with unanswered questions and hope you can help...please.

I play two quality acoustics, fingerstyle, and sometimes amp them via soundhole pickups to a Loudbox Mini. Lately, I've had the desire to 1) expand the tones I can create acoustically, and 2) attempt to create the smooth jazz tones I enjoy listening to (without going the archtop route.) I've never owned an electric guitar, but I can't get near that tone with my current acoustic setup.

My dilemma revolves around several things. Might it be better to achieve the the first goal by acquiring a modelling amp like the Boss Katana, or would it be better to use effects pedals with the Loundbox Mini? I've read that the Katana works with an acoustic guitar, but how well does it compare to an acoustic amp?

The second question is whether, or not, a smooth jazz tone might be generated via a modelling amp using an acoustic guitar - or am I destined for an electric?

Any perspective you have to offer will be very much appreciated!

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by AZ715

The second question is whether, or not, a smooth jazz tone might be generated via a modeling amp using an acoustic guitar - or am I destined for an electric?

If you could define what 'smooth jazz tone' means to you, it would help.

Earl Klugh, Wes Montgomery, and Pat Metheny, for example have all been described at times as smooth jazz. To my ear, they are radically different.

Craig Chaquico of Jefferson Starship made a name by doing new age/smooth jazz back in the 80s, using an acoustic guitar. It all depends on YOUR direction.

[BlueStarfish]

For free … on your Loudbox Mini give a nice hard cut to both treble and bass. And maybe boost the mids a bit.

For $10 worth of fun … buy a pack of Martin Retro monel strings. They may sound a little better or worse on your guitar acoustically, that’s a matter of taste and match to your guitar. But they’ll probably sound better than bronze-wounds with the mag pickup.

For $15 worth of fun … buy a pack of half-wound or flatwound strings, put them on your flattop. You won’t get the same acoustic tone, so it’s a trade. But it might be just what you are looking for amplified.

For $50 worth of fun … pick up a used TC Electronic Mojo Mojo pedal and see what you think. Worst case you can trade it at GC and not be out too much money. But I think you might like it a lot, especially as you are already using a mag pickup. Even with a piezo it’s pretty good. Even better if you have a pedal that can do a spring reverb somewhere in the house. And if you ever do get an electric amp and electric archtop then the Mojo Mojo would play well with them.

Hope you have some fun and success chasing the tone in your head!

[AZ715]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

If you could define what 'smooth jazz tone' means to you, it would help.

Earl Klugh, Wes Montgomery, and Pat Metheny, for example have all been described at times as smooth jazz. To my ear, they are radically different.

Craig Chaquico of Jefferson Starship made a name by doing new age/smooth jazz back in the 80s, using an acoustic guitar. It all depends on YOUR direction.

Gordon, I just knew someone would ask that, and rightfully so. I'm not deep into jazz, but I love some of the warm, glassy, clean tones it generates. I'd like to play standards with those tones. Of the jazz guitarists I know, I think Joe Pass may be my model. Thanks for asking!

And, BlueStarfish, thanks for a list of options to modify guitar tone. I hadn't thought of using any of those, but I intend to try them.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by AZ715

Hi Everyone,

I've decided to brave demonstrating my ignorance of all things electronic by asking for help with several decisions I'm hoping to make. Having searched AGF for similar discussions, I'm still left with unanswered questions and hope you can help...please.

I play two quality acoustics, fingerstyle, and sometimes amp them via soundhole pickups to a Loudbox Mini. Lately, I've had the desire to 1) expand the tones I can create acoustically, and 2) attempt to create the smooth jazz tones I enjoy listening to (without going the archtop route.) I've never owned an electric guitar, but I can't get near that tone with my current acoustic setup.

My dilemma revolves around several things. Might it be better to achieve the the first goal by acquiring a modeling amp like the Boss Katana, or would it be better to use effects pedals with the Loundbox Mini? I've read that the Katana works with an acoustic guitar, but how well does it compare to an acoustic amp?

The second question is whether, or not, a smooth jazz tone might be generated via a modeling amp using an acoustic guitar - or am I destined for an electric?

Any perspective you have to offer will be very much appreciated!

The Loudbox Mini is a great little amp, but let me suggest you go try a Cube EX before you make any decisions. The dual 8" drivers and 2" tweeters, combined with the true stereo reverb and chorus might showcase your acoustic as just what you're looking for.

No need to purchase; just try one out. The beauty of true stereo spatial effects is something that a lot of players overlook when they get an amp. The Cube EX works fine with a soundhole magnetic. I use mine with a K&K Pure Mini transducer.

There's nothing to prevent enjoyment of your amplified acoustic if you choose the right path. You don't need pedals, modeling, or a dedicated electric guitar.

[rmp]

This is just my humble opinion and I've owned a few moderately priced fully hollow body'd archtops



Kind of like a nylon string acoustic. These guitars do what they do, and nothing else really sounds like that.

While it's true, you can play jazz on anything, but if you are looking for that "sound"....

flatwound strings strung on some kind of jazz box either with a floating pickup at the neck, or 2 humbuckers, just have the sound.

[AZ715]

Thanks to Ray and Rudy for their suggestions!

I've a feeling I'll be visiting a guitar shop sooner, rather than later, and I'll sure add the Cube EX to my try-list.

I suspect Ray's belief that nothing will sound like an archtop but an archtop is well founded. Unfortunately, I can no longer play with a lower bout wider than 14-15", which lets out those wonderful 16" tone monsters.

But, hey, really....why wouldn't a modelling amp - at least in theory - be able to emulate any guitar tone, including that of an archtop via an old tube amp?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by AZ715

Thanks to Ray and Rudy for their suggestions!

I've a feeling I'll be visiting a guitar shop sooner, rather than later, and I'll sure add the Cube EX to my try-list.

I suspect Ray's belief that nothing will sound like an archtop but an archtop is well founded. Unfortunately, I can no longer play with a lower bout wider than 14-15", which lets out those wonderful 16" tone monsters.

But, hey, really....why wouldn't a modelling amp - at least in theory - be able to emulate any guitar tone, including that of an archtop via an old tube amp?

I owned a beautiful 1939 Epiphone Triumph for several years. It was a great jazz box, but unless you are really honed into that tonality you'll probably be disappointed with what you actually hear, and the "affordable" arch tops that are marketed today aren't an easy thing to love.

Yes, the larger body arch tops are generally uncomfortable to us "older" players, but the tone would be a much harder thing to acclimate to.

There's a few videos I've posted with acoustic guitar through the Cube EX, although what probably would appeal to you more would be with mild chorus dialed in.

Here's one:

[rmp]

Originally Posted by AZ715

Thanks to Ray and Rudy for their suggestions!

I've a feeling I'll be visiting a guitar shop sooner, rather than later, and I'll sure add the Cube EX to my try-list.

I suspect Ray's belief that nothing will sound like an archtop but an archtop is well founded. Unfortunately, I can no longer play with a lower bout wider than 14-15", which lets out those wonderful 16" tone monsters.

But, hey, really....why wouldn't a modelling amp - at least in theory - be able to emulate any guitar tone, including that of an archtop via an old tube amp?

You might get close with modeling. I think string gauge matters and action too tho.

the heaviest I can go with a jazz box are 11s with low action.

I use 12 gauge on my acoustics, action around 5/64s 4/64s.

for smaller sized bouts, one thing that comes to mind is something like the Joe Pass from Epi, I think that's 15.

I think Ibanez makes some smaller hollow bodies too (Artcore) and Goodin does too. Just a few that come to mind, probably more options.

There's also some smaller Gretch hollow bodies. the MIC ones are pretty affordable and are nice playing guitars.

[* velcro-fly *]

Originally Posted by AZ715

My dilemma revolves around several things. Might it be better to achieve the the first goal by acquiring a modelling amp like the Boss Katana, or would it be better to use effects pedals with the Loundbox Mini? I've read that the Katana works with an acoustic guitar, but how well does i

I scored a used Katana 50 for $125 and will say it’s one of the most value packed purchases I’ve made in 40+ years of playing....that said I bought it specifically for the acoustic sim on board. At home on its own it was great...10 minutes into a gig with the band last Friday night I knew it would be the last time for that and a dedicated acoustic amp or preamp into something would be needed. I played a Fishman mini yesterday and there was no comparison, not even a fair fight IF your goal is regular use of the amp with your acoustic and especially in a band format. For occasional plugging in at home, sure the Katana will work, but that’s as far as I would take it.