Subconscious Guitar playing? - Page 2

sc morris · #16 03-12-2004, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninjato
I am sure you jam....when you finally get sick of playing other people's music exactly the way they play it, you will become a musician and have an incredible edge to playing.

My issue was I could play just like you (maybe not as good) but had no clue as to theory, then I would get around musicians and they would think to themselves, WOW this guy jams and start talking music w/ me and use music terminology. That stuff would just blow over my head and I would sit there pissed because now I looked like an idiot not being able to hang w/ the converstation and maybe learn something. I know this happens to you.

Like Pipsqueak says...it is really not that hard. Actually it is very logical. If anything, just go to your local community college and take a 1st semester MUSIC 100 theory course. It's cheaper than trying to learn it at $15 for a 1/2 hour at some music store.

Yes, I do jam quite a bit....and surprisingly enough, most of what I play is my own music. I have written several instrumental pieces that I wish I could post here for you to hear. IMO, they are quite impressive for a guy with no clue. Lots of drop-D stuff with slap-percussion licks and heavily layered with harmonics. Most of my stuff is like that. I do like to learn other people's stuff from time to time...but mostly just stick to my own songs. Is there a book you could recommend that I could possibly buy to read? If I had a good book, maybe I could take one step at a time and refer back to certain parts if I get confused...

Pipsqueak · #17 03-12-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sc morris
Yes, I do jam quite a bit....and surprisingly enough, most of what I play is my own music. I have written several instrumental pieces that I wish I could post here for you to hear. IMO, they are quite impressive for a guy with no clue. Lots of drop-D stuff with slap-percussion licks and heavily layered with harmonics. Most of my stuff is like that. I do like to learn other people's stuff from time to time...but mostly just stick to my own songs. Is there a book you could recommend that I could possibly buy to read? If I had a good book, maybe I could take one step at a time and refer back to certain parts if I get confused...

please see this thread for a good book that I suggested.

it is concise (sp?), straightforward, and cheap $10

http://www.taylorguitarforum.com/for...threadid=42297

sc morris · #18 03-12-2004, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pipsqueak
please see this thread for a good book that I suggested.

it is concise (sp?), straightforward, and cheap $10

http://www.taylorguitarforum.com/for...threadid=42297

Cool.....can I get it at B&N, or will I have to go to GC or another guitar shop?

Pipsqueak · #19 03-12-2004, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sc morris
Cool.....can I get it at B&N, or will I have to go to GC or another guitar shop?

I would just go pick it up from a guitar shop.....but fair warning, it is a popular book and sometimes hard to find.

sc morris · #20 03-12-2004, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pipsqueak
I would just go pick it up from a guitar shop.....but fair warning, it is a popular book and sometimes hard to find.

thanks....

Ninjato · #21 03-13-2004, 02:05 AM

you can go to www.musictheory.net

It has very simple easy step by step lessons for you to learn music. I highly recommend it.

underwhelmed · #22 03-14-2004, 06:49 PM

Hey, sorry to bring this to the top again.

I was just wondering (since I don't play a lot of jazz) if in practice people ever build chords in a minor progression off of the harmonic minor other than for the dominant.

Hope somebody can set me straight on this =)

Ninjato · #23 03-14-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by underwhelmed
Hey, sorry to bring this to the top again.

I was just wondering (since I don't play a lot of jazz) if in practice people ever build chords in a minor progression off of the harmonic minor other than for the dominant.

Hope somebody can set me straight on this =)

I believe the harmonic minor is used for melodies..thus the term "harmonic" as in harmony. For the most part the only diff between the harmonic minor and natural minor is the 7th scale degree is raised a 1/2 step compared to the natural minor. I think MAPLETREES can answer this one better than me.

aggie182 · #24 03-14-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shane
i decided to figure out a song that i knew was powerchords (its one of those bands heh)..............

power chords rock.

Ninjato · #25 03-14-2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aggie182
power chords rock.

YEAH...I know!!!

Still trying to come up w/ something for that WAV you sent me. HAHAHAHA
Man I've been busy w/ school. I have no time to do anything but school work.

underwhelmed · #26 03-15-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninjato
I believe the harmonic minor is used for melodies..thus the term "harmonic" as in harmony. For the most part the only diff between the harmonic minor and natural minor is the 7th scale degree is raised a 1/2 step compared to the natural minor. I think MAPLETREES can answer this one better than me.

Sarcastic Sid would say melodic minor is used for melodies and harmonic minor for chords/harmonies

The only reason I ask is that in classical music they build triads on the harmonic minor rather than the natural minor. That's why there's a dimished seventh chord in the minor scale in classical music. As I said, most of the chords that I tried building in thirds on the harmonic minor didn't sound as good as the progression you gave, but the major fifth definately did sound good.

Yes, hopefully Mapletrees can save us all

Taylor Poor · #27 03-16-2004, 03:07 PM

This stuff will make your head explode

Its really worth the time to learn though. My teacher was a big supporter of theory. And the way he taught me (a common way) was through chord construction. The drills were simple. For example, Maj chords:

He's say:

Play a GMaj chord without doubling notes (I couldnt use the note G twice)

Play GMaj but start with the 5th

Play GMaj but start with the 7th

Play GMaj with an added 6th

etc, etc, etc

Of course sometimes you couldn't play the chord he requested unless your fingers were 14 inches long, but he went through them just to let you know that.

Jimmy Amadie has some excellent books that explain this theory in plain english as well as providing some great examples and excerices.

whiskeyjack · #28 03-16-2004, 08:01 PM

Just my two cents, SC.

I can play lots of stuff I can't describe or transcribe. Many imbellishments, hammer-ons & pull-offs; Major seventh chords in the middle of weird chord progressions which all have a name and order; and fingerings in alternate tunings that sound fantastic. It comes naturally, it's fun and rewarding. I don't routinely use conscious effort to disect stuff from a music theory standpoint. And when I do, it's difficult at best.

If I'd learned better early-on the technical language of music, my horizons may have been broader today. Your potential to play and write better lies in motivation, understanding and applying music theory. But the heart of the song is not music theory. The heart of the song is how you feel when you play it. Your appreciative audience doesn't hear music theory - they hear what you convey from the heart.

You'll hear about Paul McCartney and other popular musicians who were, by most accounts, musically illterate but were very successful. As I think about it, it was theory-savy people around them who transcribed and promoted their work so that others could buy sheet music and learn to play their songs.

Thanks to all who posted here. I learned a lot of stuff I'd forgotten. . .and some stuff I thought I knew.

sc morris · #29 03-16-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whiskeyjack
Just my two cents, SC.

I can play lots of stuff I can't describe or transcribe. Many imbellishments, hammer-ons & pull-offs; Major seventh chords in the middle of weird chord progressions which all have a name and order; and fingerings in alternate tunings that sound fantastic. It comes naturally, it's fun and rewarding. I don't routinely use conscious effort to disect stuff from a music theory standpoint. And when I do, it's difficult at best.

If I'd learned better early-on the technical language of music, my horizons may have been broader today. Your potential to play and write better lies in motivation, understanding and applying music theory. But the heart of the song is not music theory. The heart of the song is how you feel when you play it. Your appreciative audience doesn't hear music theory - they hear what you convey from the heart.

You'll hear about Paul McCartney and other popular musicians who were, by most accounts, musically illterate but were very successful. As I think about it, it was theory-savy people around them who transcribed and promoted their work so that others could buy sheet music and learn to play their songs.

Thanks to all who posted here. I learned a lot of stuff I'd forgotten. . .and some stuff I thought I knew.

Some very good point made. I wish I knew more, and I intend to learn more. But I sure have fun with what I do know.... I admire true musicians for what they know and I'm not even sure if I know any "true" musicians. This black guy that I know is probably the closest thing to a true musician that I know...and I totally despise the music he plays. Sounds like Soul-train or something and with all that mumbling in his singing...it's really bad. But he knows pretty much everything about theory and all that stuff. People like me really seem to bug "musicians" though. It just kills them that people can play and not know what they're playing. I guess I can sort of see where they're coming from, but me, I couldn't care less if someone knows theory or not. If they can play...they can play. my .02

Ninjato · #30 03-17-2004, 12:53 AM

There are many people who play great without theory knowledge but those that don't know theory tend to stick w/ the same style and over a long time, it gets old.

Then there are people who know a lot of theory but have little articulation techniques so they don't sound as good.

It's good to do both IMO.

As far as people who don't know theory "bugging" those who do know...it's not that you bug those that know theory in the sense that it bothers them, what it is is that they cannot talk music to those that don't understand theory. It makes it real hard to communicate music and after a while it becomes a waste of time.

It is so much easier for me to go let's jam 1-4-5 progression in Ab...and 1-2-3-4 and go!!! Or better yet, if I need to communicate a chord spelling and say play a C#dim7, I don't have to say bar 3 fret play a C7 and add the C# on the A stringon the 4th fret.

What I am trying to say it the inability to communicate music is what bugs those that understand theory. So what happens is TABBERS and MUSICIANS have a really hard time jamming together. A good example here would be a song like Autumn Leaves or Satin Doll. SATIN DOLL is in the key of C. But if I have to play w/ a sax player, I can transpose and play in Bb. So once you understand theory and your fretboard at that level, if someone says, SATIN DOLL in G, there is no "Wait a minute, I only know how to play it this way"

This is a lot harder than it seems, at least for me right now too, but I am learning slowly but surely. TABS are great to learn a song but does not offer proper rhythmic articulation and many that are found on the NET are incorrect. Learning to read music offers all that and more in the long run.

Don't get fooled by the fact that some superstars can't read music. That is THEIR gift...James Taylor can't read music at all, and although he puts out great stuff, ever notice how all his songs sound exactly the same w/ a different rhythm to it?