Adirondack on a D-18...

[Shades of Blue]

Thanks everyone. The two trends I’m noticing is that they seem to be tight when new, and they will lend themselves to being bright. THanks!!

[warfrat73]

Like with so many other things, I think some people might over-expect or have unrealistic expectations. There are lots of posts here, at UMGF, and other places that clarify that the characteristics that point towards tonal superiority of Adi (stiffness, strength to weight, etc), are only greater than Sitka on average, and that on a specimen to specimen basis Sitka might be stiffer and stronger than Adi. And that tonal generalizations are just that, generalizations based on average characteristics.

That said, in comparing my Adi topped CS (standard forward shifted braces) to a couple off-the-shelf D-18s, I've found it to be a bit snappier and more responsive and have more volume with my typical attack. Maybe a bit more headroom, but that rather than headroom, it's the easy, effortless volume that I've found most striking about the differences (at least from the driver's seat).

I can't say that I've found it particularly more bright, nor that it felt tight initially or took an especially long time to open up. But I do think it has a bit more of a focused tone with a shorter decay than the standard ones I've played. I suppose this could be taken as brightness and tightness, but it's kind of a matter of perspective.

Of course these observations are based on relatively limited playing time on standard D-18s. So it could certainly be in my head.

[TJChapin]

Headroom and clarity

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

Like with so many other things, I think some people might over-expect or have unrealistic expectations. There are lots of posts here, at UMGF, and other places that clarify that the characteristics that point towards tonal superiority of Adi (stiffness, strength to weight, etc), are only greater than Sitka on average, and that on a specimen to specimen basis Sitka might be stiffer and stronger than Adi. And that tonal generalizations are just that, generalizations based on average characteristics.

That said, in comparing my Adi topped CS (standard forward shifted braces) to a couple off-the-shelf D-18s, I've found it to be a bit snappier and more responsive and have more volume with my typical attack. Maybe a bit more headroom, but that rather than headroom, it's the easy, effortless volume that I've found most striking about the differences (at least from the driver's seat).

I can't say that I've found it particularly more bright, nor that it felt tight initially or took an especially long time to open up. But I do think it has a bit more of a focused tone with a shorter decay than the standard ones I've played. I suppose this could be taken as brightness and tightness, but it's kind of a matter of perspective.

Of course these observations are based on relatively limited playing time on standard D-18s. So it could certainly be in my head.

This is mighty helpful. There is a standard D-18 hanging in my local guitar shop right now. The color on the top is lighter than some of the orangy/yellowish aging toners you often see. It is rather fetching. I've played it and it sounds good, the grain is wide and honestly, I'm hoping my 517 will sell soon. I would like to pick that one up. The price isn't great on it, but I might could talk him down some.

[Dyson Guitars]

I tend to find that adirondack on mahoagany is the best combo to my ears and I have never been a huge fan of Adi over rosewood. Lots of people will disagree with me and they have great reasons I'm sure but with all the Adi topped guitars I have heard the mahogany back and sides ones always stood out to me.

[Mr. Jelly]

I found adi tops to feel tight and constricted and took a little more attack pressure than sitka. I find sitka to be a touch more responsive. As Stefan Grossman is reported to have said. Sitka is already broke in.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

My favorite local dealer cautions against ordering a custom guitar with an Adirondack top as it often doesn't measure up to a customer's expected benefits versus the significant upcharge of Adirondack.

This is valid. While I’m very happy with my Adirondack spruce-topped D-18, when I was deciding what details to get on the Martin Custom Shop 00-21 I ordered a couple of years ago I wrestled with whether I wanted the Adirondack option.

I had previously owned a deep-bodied Double O that Scott Baxendale built for me, his Harwood model, and it had an Adirondack top. The truth is that I never really warmed up to that guitar, even though it was a fine instrument and I got a lot of compliments on its tone.

So when I was thinking about ordering that custom 00-21 from Martin I talked to Todd Yates, a genuine Martin expert who used to participate on this forum.

When I explained my ambivalence about putting an Adirondack top on a 12 fret Double O, not to mention my hesitance over the price of the upgrade, Todd suggested that I consider ordering it with a Swiss spruce top. He told me that Martin had some great Swiss spruce tops and it was only a $150 upgrade.

So that’s what I went with, and am very glad that I did. But it probably wouldn’t have occurred to me if I hadn’t spoken to Todd.

Thanks for the excellent advice, Todd!

Anyway, an Adirondack spruce top is not always the best choice.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[catfish]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Thanks for the excellent advice, Todd!

Todd cannot answer since he is no longer with AGF, but we can see his contribution in the AGF archive under Guest 1928 name.

He is active on UMGF, though.

[LeftyKev]

The whole spruce debacle is fascinating, so many spruces, so little time ..

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

This is valid. While I’m very happy with my Adirondack spruce-topped D-18, when I was deciding what details to get on the Martin Custom Shop 00-21 I ordered a couple of years ago I wrestled with whether I wanted the Adirondack option.

I had previously owned a deep-bodied Double O that Scott Baxendale built for me, his Harwood model, and it had an Adirondack top. The truth is that I never really warmed up to that guitar, even though it was a fine instrument and I got a lot of compliments on its tone.

So when I was thinking about ordering that custom 00-21 from Martin I talked to Todd Yates, a genuine Martin expert who used to participate on this forum.

When I explained my ambivalence about putting an Adirondack top on a 12 fret Double O, not to mention my hesitance over the price of the upgrade, Todd suggested that I consider ordering it with a Swiss spruce top. He told me that Martin had some great Swiss spruce tops and it was only a $150 upgrade.

So that’s what I went with, and am very glad that I did. But it probably wouldn’t have occurred to me if I hadn’t spoken to Todd.

Thanks for the excellent advice, Todd!

Anyway, an Adirondack spruce top is not always the best choice.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

My feeling is that for some players a good reason to order Adirondack (Red Spruce) on a guitar build is so it'll make the guitar one step closer to the "golden era" specifications that some players want.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

My feeling is that for some players a good reason to order Adirondack (Red Spruce) on a guitar build is so it'll make the guitar one step closer to the "golden era" specifications that some players want.

The D-18 in my sights also has GE bracing and no aged toner. I'm about 75% certain I want to order it, but I'm not sure I'd like it that much more than a Standard D-18. I know that I want louder, but not necessarily brighter or more strident.

[Shades of Blue]

Done deal. Ordered a Custom D-18 Adi with GE bracing and no toner from Jon at MFG....gonna miss that guy lol,but pretty soon his only concern will be getting drinks refilled by the pool...

[llew]

I've owned Jon's D-18 Adirondack but not with the GE bracing. I'm sure it's a stellar guitar in every way. And like you...I'm gonna miss Jon too.

[warfrat73]

Should be a beast! Hope it works out for you... I do sometimes wish I ordered mine with GE bracing.

[Mrbirdog]

Originally Posted by TJChapin

Headroom and clarity

^^^^^
this plus more volume or is that headroom??? Mine is a cannon