Subconscious Guitar playing?

[mapletrees]

underwhelmed,

my use/knowledge of the harmonic and melodic minor is limited to the

standard minor ii-V

and

HM against diminished (smoothed out)

and

and using MM and HM in the typical ways to produce altered tones against dominant chords....

nothing new to the world there......

[mapletrees]

as I look back I'm not sure if you do or do not understand something...

you are building up the chords the right way with the harmonic minor...(one small note...I can't see it as I type...but I think you wrote FACE = F7 when you meant Fmaj7....anyways...)

where were we...

you were doing the right thing...the point of going from natural minor to harmonic minor is to get the V7 chord....

I'm just not sure if you understand to keep building up the V chord until you've got a jazzier flat9 chord...(I think you do)

A harmonic minor = A B C D E F G# A B C D E F...etc...

and building on root E...just stacking thirds...just picking every other note....

E G# B = E maj

E G# B D = E7

E G# B D F = E7b9

and of course you'd eventually come to the note C also which is b13 or #5 with respect to the E root...however you want to think of it...

as you pointed out before, when you build a chord starting on root B you get

B D F A = Bmin7b5

and when you string Bm7b5 and E7b9 together going to some variation of Aminor you get what is called a minor ii-V-I....a common jazzy move...

7x776x Bmin7b5

to

x7676x E7b9

to

5x755x Amin

now, when I first read through what you wrote, I had it in my head you knew the minor ii-V and were asking if the harmonic minor is used to generate any *other* progressions besides that one.....

??????????

I'm not aware of hm's use to generate other standard/common progressions or moves...maybe someone else does...

the min(maj7) chord does pop up in this move

5x755x Am

to

5x655x Am(maj7)

to

5x555x Am7

to

5x455x Am6 (that's Amin with a MAJOR 6th added in on the 4th string - which is the note F#....just emphasizing that point....often when people see a "minor sixth chord" they understandably get mixed up.....the chord is minor and the 6th is major.....it doesn't mean play an A chord with a minor 6th thrown in...)

Am(maj7) and Am6 can be thought of as popping out of the A Melodic Minor scale if you wish....(MM contains the major 6 and major 7)

but of course...if you're the type to play out of chord shapes or by ear, you don't really need any knowledge of scales

[sc morris]

Originally posted by Ninjato
I can transpose and play in Bb. So once you understand theory and your fretboard at that level, if someone says, SATIN DOLL in G, there is no "Wait a minute, I only know how to play it this way"

Good point... And I am in no way trying to justify my lack of knowledge....buttom line....I've been lazy and content with jamming and wish I knew more. You bring up a perfect example. When I'm playing with certain folks, transposing is an issue. I'm just now beginning to understand this a bit....but I'm still a long ways away. The capo thing baffles me more than anything. Example: I used to play in my church band some....and the piano man, for his voice mostly, was notorious for key changes. A song would be in G.....he would say, "let's play in Ab". I'm like, "hello, McFly???" So, my buddy, who is more of a musician, says, "capo II and play blah, blah, blah, " It is absolutely mind-boggling to me how he comes up with where and how to do this. he has tried to explain it, but it just flies over my head. Please don't waste your energy posting an example....because I won't understand it. I need to know the basics of theory and chord structure....or else it will make no sense. I just trust him and do as he does when we play. This is the only way I have "memorized" some of this....but I don't understand it. And if he's not there and I'm asked to play.....you're correct....I'm shut down unless I have it memorized. Very frustrating....

[whiskeyjack]

I need to know the basics of theory and chord structure....or else it will make no sense.

Not necessarily. A quick and dirty way to transpose something from a certain key is to use an alphabetical process. I use this frequently when I need to experiment with lowering or raising a key to fit my voice. It's not precise and there's no theory involved but it'll get you in the ball park so you can make adjustments.

Let's say the chords are G, A, D and B minor and parts of the song are too high for you to sing. Go backwards alphabetically from G. The first letter then is F. Do that with all the chords. G will replace the A chord. C for D. A minor for B minor. Your chord progression becomes F - G - C - A minor. You've effectively lowered the key one whole step without understanding the theory rational.

Again, this is quick and dirty. There's adjustments that will need to be made using this system. But it's a fun place to start.

I hope I'm not being overbearing in suggesting a system to understanding the mechanics of the capo. I know so little about it myself sometimes. . . .

Do you know barr chords? If so, consider the nut a capo. Play an E7 chord. Now consider your first finger a substitute for the capo as you play an F chord barred on the first fret. You've still got the E7 configuration but the capo (your first finger) is on the first fret. So - the E7 fingering is now an F chord with a capo on the first fret.

Play a G chord barred at the third fret. You've still got that E7 chord configuration but the capo (your first finger) is on the third fret. So - the E7 fingering is now a G chord with a capo at the third fret.

There's references that can teach you a lot better than this but it's a place you might want to start.

Have fun.

[sc morris]

thanks WJack....good words. I understand how to lower something or raise it....but when the capo goes on...it's really frustrating at time. this may help.