Small Builders?

[inthishope]

Hey all! It's been a number of years since I was really active on the forum but I am in search of your wisdom.

I'm considering a custom build from a small builder. His guitars are gorgeous, seem very well built, and sound incredible BUT I have a little bit of reservation I'm spending the money (much less than a Ryan mind you) on a little know builder.

First, is it worth it to have no name recognition? What would be the things to pay special attention to?

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by inthishope

First, is it worth it to have no name recognition? What would be the things to pay special attention to?

Depends on what you mean by "worth it." If you've played examples of his guitars and like the sound and playability in relation to what you'd be paying, and you're buying it purely for those purposes, then yeah, probably.

If you want it as a status symbol, an investment, or are worried about resale value, then no, probably not worth it.

My biggest concern with a relatively unknown builder (aside from the aforementioned tone and playability) would be long term reliability and warranty considerations. There are a few horror stories out there of guitars self destructing a few years down the line.

[hubcapsc]

There's a lot of good builders out there. I have a nice guitar
built by Ken Stika (RIP) from Utah. Most people have never
heard of him, my guitar isn't worth much like a Martin or a
Gibson or one built by a more famous small builder. If your
"no name" small builder makes good guitars, resale value is all
I know of that is a down side. And having a cool guitar that's not
run-of-the-mill is a great upside. My Ken Stika guitar looks like a
dreadnought, but it doesn't look like a Martin or a Gibson. I've had
my Ken Stika guitar for almost 20 years, I have taken to the luthier,
he only had positive things to say about it, so it is not weird getting
it worked on.

-Mike

[Archaic Guitars]

I think if you’re commissioning a custom build, resale should be the last thing on your mind. You’re having it custom built. For you. So of course it’s going to not be as valuable to someone else. (Unless you luck out and this small builder becomes the next Kostal in a few years, in which case, maybe you can sell it for more than what you paid.)

If you’re having a custom built guitar made for you, it makes sense to just make sure it’s a guitar that you’ll cherish for a long time. If you commission a guitar for $4000, love playing it for 10 years, then sell it for $1500 when you feel it’s time to move on, did you really lose $2500, or did you gain 10 years with a beautiful, unique guitar? I’d say that’s worth a little loss in resale value, but of course I’m am in a position to be biased...

[inthishope]

This was kind of what I was thinking. I'm not worried about name recognition or resale value. My wife is getting me a 40th birthday present so this is one guitar that I plan to keep for life.

I started looking for a guitar that I would want to keep forever and it is just hard to find a mass-produced guitar that doesn't haven anything that aesthetically bothers me (I personally hate plastic binding on an instrument) AND sounds and plays like I want. Either it sounds amazing but is uninspiring aesthetically or it looks amazing and sounds mediocre. I've had a lot of Taylors and sometimes you can get lucky and find a good one where their cookie cutter design happens to really match with the pieces of wood used and you get a special instrument, but most of the time it seems like you get an instrument that could have been much better if it was properly voiced and individual care was given to the build...which big box companies just can't do because of the volume they are building.

That's why I started down the path of a commissioned guitar...but I don't have $15k to drop on a guitar.

My other thought was to find a used guitar from a builder like Bourgeois that still builds like a commissioned shop but with some efficiencies added to their process. I feel like that eliminates some of the risk without compromising on build quality.

I'm hitting SoundPure this morning to play some of their nicer guitars before I head over to the builder's place and spend some time with him.

[Dyson Guitars]

Fellow NC resident here. As a small builder myself I obviously think it is a good idea to purchase small builder guitars! You can pick every single part on a custom one off and have something completely yours, that has to be worth something. I think you also get more from the relationship with a small builder, they get to know you and your style and can really help you get the right instrument for you and your playing. Nothing wrong with going and picking out a really sweet Bourgeois that fits you, but maybe your small builder can make something that fits you even better. Good luck!!

[TomB'sox]

First of all, good luck with whatever you do decide.

I have had several custom guitars built and love the guitars and the process.

For a little larger budget, you could have a guitar built by one of the AGF sponsors which would solve the issue of name recognition for you as well as wondering if the luthier will be around to deal with warranties etc.

There are wonderful examples of builds from all of them on this site. I am not going to name names as I will forget someone, but have a look.

Going with one of the sponsors here would, in my opinion, alleviate several of your concerns and turn the process into great fun.

Whatever you decide, do make it fun and get what you want, that is the point of going the custom route from woods to special inlays etc. Make it your own and love it.

[kkrell]

Originally Posted by inthishope

I'm hitting SoundPure this morning to play some of their nicer guitars before I head over to the builder's place (James Alexeas alexeasguitars.com ) and spend some time with him.

Maybe his website shouldn't promote "taylor made for you." "Tailor" would be a better choice. TaylorMade is a Golf equipment company, and, of course, there are those guitar people.

Anyway, if they appear to be well-constructed, and you like the aesthetic, sound and playability of the instruments, there is likely little downside (other than perhaps resale value) in going for a custom instrument.

When I purchased my Musser, it was #38 in 1980, so while Don did not have a super-long history of building, still he seemed to know what he was doing. I was able to play one his guitars beforehand, although of a different wood selection. He continues to build about 9 guitars a year, so I'd consider him a small builder.

[inthishope]

xD He did mention the need for some website work. Maybe we can barter a bit LOL

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by inthishope

...[snip]...
I'm considering a custom build from a small builder. His guitars are gorgeous, seem very well built, and sound incredible BUT I have a little bit of reservation I'm spending the money (much less than a Ryan mind you) on a little know builder. ...[snip]...

A consideration might be warranty; what if this builder does not stay in the business? Another thing might be how financially secure and healthy they are; what if you pay the deposit, or more, and the guitar doesn't get delivered?

Originally Posted by inthishope

This was kind of what I was thinking. I'm not worried about name recognition or resale value. My wife is getting me a 40th birthday present so this is one guitar that I plan to keep for life.
...[snip]...

I've kept and maintained interest in playing a guitar(s) for a long time. i don't know if I'll ever have a lifetime guitar though; not saying I won't but who knows? What if your musical interests change, or a disability of some type requires a different guitar for playability reasons? Getting a very nice guitar for a gift seems wonderful, but do you need to have the mindset that it will be a lifetime commitment?

My first commission, while extremely nice and pretty expensive, was with a builder who had not achieved that much name recognition. After about 4 years I got another guitar made. It took me a couple years to sell the first one, but I didn't take much of a financial hit.

My second and third commissioned guitars, while I still play them and plan to keep them, would probably not be as saleable without quite a discount. But even so, if I do sell it at a significant loss I've gotten quite a lot of use and enjoyment from it.

There is no right or wrong answer. Unless you are not financially limited, it is a balancing act of value and risk.

[islandguitar]

I think the "value/risk" factor is helpful info to keep in mind.

Also, there are some folks who feel that a "sweet spot" for a builder is when they are approaching 100 builds or thereabouts. This seems to be a point where they have hit their stride in terms of consistency with "their sound". Of course it's not a "rule", but an opinion held by some.

Checking the financial viability of your builder can also be important. Does he do this full time? Part-time? I've had one experience where my guitar was commissioned and started after waiting a whole year, only to be cancelled as the builder went out of business due to financial issues. Deposit was returned months later, but it's not a given that this is possible in every situation.

Best of luck with your journey. It's a wonderful experience and highly personal!

[justonwo]

Custom guitars are inherently risky. There are a few ways to mitigate the risk:

1) Play several examples of the builder's work so that you are comfortable with the sound they produce. Most of the time, there will be a common thread to the guitars. You will either like them or not.

2) Not all custom builds end with perfection and euphoria. Luthiers make mistakes. Sometimes bad ones. Going with someone that is relatively obscure could potentially exacerbate this risk.

3) I would absolutely consider the re-sale value in my evaluation of a luthier. See point #2. If you don't bond with the instrument, you don't want to take a bath on resale.

Not all builders are created equal, and I would be very wary of anyone that advertises they can voice a guitar however you want it to sound. If and when there are problems (and there often are problems), you want someone with a solid reputation that can make things right with minimum hassle/emotion.

[j. Kinnaird]

If you are looking for a small builder, I would like to mention that I am only about 5 foot 7 (used to be taller but eons of gravity have taken their toll) and reasonably trim.

[jt1]

Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird

If you are looking for a small builder, I would like to mention that I am only about 5 foot 7 (used to be taller but eons of gravity have taken their toll) and reasonably trim.

This!

And Jason Kostal is anything but a small builder. The dude is huge!

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird

If you are looking for a small builder, I would like to mention that I am only about 5 foot 7 (used to be taller but eons of gravity have taken their toll) and reasonably trim.

This is great, and it’s what comes to mind whenever I see “small builder.”

If the builder has a decent reputation, even with few builds, it’s less of a risk. I jumped on a couple like that, though, and have regretted doing that. Check references, make some calls and find out if past customers still love their guitars and had a good experience during the process.

As Tom says above, our forum sponsors tend to have excellent reputations (deservedly so), and they have a certain amount of skin in the game by virtue of their exposure here. Depending on your budget, I bet you could find a luthier here who would welcome the opportunity to build you a special guitar.