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  #1  
Old 12-27-2011, 10:15 PM
baimo baimo is offline
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Default Why Archtops

They look cool. I gather they play nicely as an acoustic as well as plugged in. What is the advantage other than the depth. They seem to be mostly very expensive 5000+ with the exception of eastman (which seems to be a great dela for a well made chinese guitar).
What is the advantage over an acoustic with electrification added? any other major differences. I just cant find a lot of info on these compared to acoustics.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:19 PM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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They just don't sound the same -- not even close. And to me they are best suited for a certain repertoire as well -- campfire strumming isn't one of them.

If you like the looks of an archtop, you owe it to yourself to try and play one. You may love (or hate) the sound and feel of it.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:58 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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Prices start in the mid $100's not $5k.

Listen to some, they are as variable as flattops. Price is not an indicator of tonal excellence or playability.

I prefer archtops over flattops for most of my playing, currently looking for another.

Last edited by bohemian; 12-28-2011 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:59 AM
Dr. Jazz Dr. Jazz is offline
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There are two kinds of Archies. The laminated (or plywood) that start at a few hundred$ and can run to a few thousand $; and the Carved or "Real" archtops.

Originally the arch in the top and back were carved from 1.5" thick pieces of sold spruce (top) and solid maple (back) just like a violin or cello. This allowed for an extremely loud guitar when used for playing rhythm in the jazz bands of the day - very useful prior to electric instruments. It also made them significantly more expensive than flat-tops. Some costing more than a house in the 30s. The major names were Epiphone & Gibson with D'Angelico, Stomberg, and D'Aquisto coming in as the top end small makers.

When pick-ups were added, the factories began experimenting with plywood construction and discovered that though they lost many of the acoustic properties, the pick-ups made up for that and it made them much cheaper.

Today, the carved guitars still hold the attention of most jazz players and are the most expensive guitars you can purchase. They tend to start around $8-10K from established builders and travel up to around $25K to $50K. The sound is in the carving.

Companies like Eastman in China are carving surprisingly good guitars starting around $2500 in the traditional woods. Not as good as some of the great North American makers, but significantly better than the plywood entries at several times the money.

There is something wonderful about a real arch top. It's true, they are not campfire guitars, but when you play Swing Rhythm, they have the right, perhaps the ONLY sound. :-)
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:10 AM
baimo baimo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jazz View Post
There are two kinds of Archies. The laminated (or plywood) that start at a few hundred$ and can run to a few thousand $; and the Carved or "Real" archtops.

Originally the arch in the top and back were carved from 1.5" thick pieces of sold spruce (top) and solid maple (back) just like a violin or cello. This allowed for an extremely loud guitar when used for playing rhythm in the jazz bands of the day - very useful prior to electric instruments. It also made them significantly more expensive than flat-tops. Some costing more than a house in the 30s. The major names were Epiphone & Gibson with D'Angelico, Stomberg, and D'Aquisto coming in as the top end small makers.

When pick-ups were added, the factories began experimenting with plywood construction and discovered that though they lost many of the acoustic properties, the pick-ups made up for that and it made them much cheaper.

Today, the carved guitars still hold the attention of most jazz players and are the most expensive guitars you can purchase. They tend to start around $8-10K from established builders and travel up to around $25K to $50K. The sound is in the carving.

Companies like Eastman in China are carving surprisingly good guitars starting around $2500 in the traditional woods. Not as good as some of the great North American makers, but significantly better than the plywood entries at several times the money.

There is something wonderful about a real arch top. It's true, they are not campfire guitars, but when you play Swing Rhythm, they have the right, perhaps the ONLY sound. :-)
Thanks. Very informative. I am more interested in the carved ones. I bought a Santa Cruz 000 at Rudy's in NYC and noticed the archtop room. Most were very expensive (7 to 100k) but they also had a decent selection of eastman's between 1800 and 2500 dollars. I think they are beautiful and will have to try a few out.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:13 AM
Watt Watt is offline
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I have a 1931 Supertone (Sears/Harmony) archtop that appears to be made from solid mahogany. It is not a great instrument. The neck is slightly bowed and there are a couple repaired but obvious cracks. Still, it has a sound that unmistakably says archtop. It is loud and heavily weighted toward the midrange, without much sustain. It is perfect for blues strumming and finger picking and traditional, pre-bop jazz. Definitely not for smooth jazz or easy listening in my opinion, but others might find a use there. The modern, high end archtops are much more nuanced and have a broader range, but the general characteristics are similar. One of the leading modern proponents of the instrument in the folk realm is Dave Rawlings. Listen to him while he accompanies his partner, Gillian Welch, on his 1935 Epiphone Olympic and tell me if you could replicate that sound with an amplified flat top.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:25 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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You can get a solid topped (or even a all solid wood archtop) for a good price nowadays...it doesn't require a second mortgage.

If we're talking purely acoustic archtops, it's a very unique sound...one I love, but it's not for everbody. Nothing else does what they do...a flat top will never cut it if it's an archtop sound you want. forceful, punchy, tight, focused, these are all words that describe their tone, but they are capable of subtle beauty as well...not just for pounding out jazz chords (though they do that better than just about anthing) a great instrument for somone who wants their lines to be heard cleanly without a bunch of overtones smearing the sound into a "haze." you could think of playing an archtop like playing an electric guitar through a perfectly clean amp with no reverb...maybe a little unforgiving, but done right, very rewarding.

as for the "jazz boxes" with magnetic pickups on board, they're really "electric" guitars that deliver a very different sound than an "electric-acoustic" guitar.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:38 AM
jimmy bookout jimmy bookout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
You can get a solid topped (or even a all solid wood archtop) for a good price nowadays...it doesn't require a second mortgage.

If we're talking purely acoustic archtops, it's a very unique sound...one I love, but it's not for everbody. Nothing else does what they do...a flat top will never cut it if it's an archtop sound you want. forceful, punchy, tight, focused, these are all words that describe their tone, but they are capable of subtle beauty as well...not just for pounding out jazz chords (though they do that better than just about anthing) a great instrument for somone who wants their lines to be heard cleanly without a bunch of overtones smearing the sound into a "haze." you could think of playing an archtop like playing an electric guitar through a perfectly clean amp with no reverb...maybe a little unforgiving, but done right, very rewarding.

as for the "jazz boxes" with magnetic pickups on board, they're really "electric" guitars that deliver a very different sound than an "electric-acoustic" guitar.
Jeff,
Your last sentence is absolutely correct. I have always wanted to hear more of an archtop (carved) acoustic sound and less of a floating pickup (which does not sound like the guitar). My luthier did a cool mod to my Eastman Pagelli....he installed a Fishman Matrix Infinity under the saddle, wired it in stereo with the Armstrong magnetic pickup. I come out of the guitar with a stereo cable into an Ultrasound DI Max Stereo preamp, blend the signals, and come out mono to the board. I am running the about 75/25 in favor of the Fishman. The magnetic pickup fills out the bottom end a touch.

Jimmy
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2011, 11:09 AM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0TaFAFSaY

The Gibson L-5 1934 Reissue is one I'd like to try.

An inexpensive yet fun archtop at an affordable price is the Godin 5th Ave.
While not in the league of my L-48 or my L-50, light, fun, easy to play and a reasonable archtop tone when tweaked a bit.

For L-4 new age copies I would go with Slaman.

Of the Eastmans, my preference is the 804 or 805, no electrics no cutaway.

I found the repro Loars to be boxy.

Some of my favorites are the Epiphones. Many can be had in the under $4k
category.

As with flattops, archtops are case by case. There are gems among them without going to the extreme high dollar arena.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Archtop Guy Archtop Guy is offline
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Why archtops? Just for a start...
  1. They look cool.
  2. They have an interesting history.
  3. They are unusual.
  4. They have a unique sound.
  5. They cut through the mix. They play well with other instruments.
  6. They have a balanced bass / treble response.
  7. They are versatile, with a wide range of acoustic to electric tones possible.

More? Anyone?
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:59 AM
Duncan121 Duncan121 is offline
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Default Love them

I love Archtops...I'm trying to find a good Vintage Gibson L-10 right now. Haven't seen one yet that I thought was in good enough shape for every day gigging but I'm holding out hope....
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:24 PM
Petespix Petespix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0TaFAFSaY
Some of my favorites are the Epiphones. Many can be had in the under $4k
category.
or much less. I picked up a 1940 Epiphone Zenith archtop in very nice condition for $550 this year. It has a solid carved spruce top with walnut back and sides. There are often good deals on these old archtops.

Peter
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:44 PM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
The Gibson L-5 1934 Reissue is one I'd like to try.
I love mine. I had been looking for a new one for ages until I finally saw one last year on Dave's website.

It's reasonably priced (for a US-made carved top) and it's got a lot of history. It sounds magnificent, too.

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  #14  
Old 12-28-2011, 02:36 PM
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I recently scored an older - 1964 vintage - Harmony Archtone for 130 w/case. It's in excellent shape but needs a little adjusting. It's not plywood, I believe its solid birch pressed into shape. It sounds rather good, not Mother Maybelle's Gibson sound but pretty good. You don't need to spend big bucks.
I would love to find a tenor archtop.
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