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  #16  
Old 06-11-2021, 09:28 AM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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I suggest a little more care keeping all posts within the rules. Thank you.
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  #17  
Old 06-11-2021, 09:32 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDB View Post
Common sense would dictate that areas affected by these water issues would stop issuing building permits.

Unfortunately governments and common sense don't mix well together.

Reality check…80 percent of Colorado River water goes to agriculture….not that every drop doesn’t count….as far as building permits go…people have to live somewhere and out west there are very few places that aren’t experiencing more drought…

…water saving measures with regards to both agricultural and real estate development are nothing new….I remember restrictions being placed on water use going back more than 30 years in California….and nearly as long for ranchers here in Oregon….conservation efforts have been ongoing through all these years and progress has been made….

….hopefully our present drought will end sooner rather than later but we should prepare for tighter restrictions and increased food costs until they do….
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:10 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by Photojeep View Post
As someone who lived in Las Vegas for 41 years, I know first hand how this will affect the LV area and the other areas affected.


Third, it has been determined the biggest share of water usage in LV is for residential turf grass; somewhere around 75%. By far, residential turf grass consumes far, far more than all of the Hotel/Casinos combined. Over the years I lived there, the LV valley has reduced its water consumption by over 35% while the population quadrupled.


Fifth, between when I moved to LV in 1980 and when I left a month ago, the amount of heat absorbing concrete and asphalt increased about 10 fold (my anecdotal number based on personal observations). This means the entire valley is now a heat sink that absorbs the desert sun during the day and then releases it during the night thereby keeping the ambient temperature far higher now than it was in 1980. This keeps the evaporation rate very high even overnight resulting in greater water use.

Yes, it is a very complex problem but if developers and local governmental boards plan carefully and work to undo many of the foolish decisions of the past, catastrophic consequences can be avoided.


It is a complex problem that needs forward thinkers to solve and I wonder how long it will take for the hard decisions to be made.

Best,
PJ
Yes the amount of water used for lawns in the US is huge. And arguably in large part "unnecessary" Especially now with what is known about Xeriscape alternatives ....

And IMO even though lawns were inexorably etched into the American psyche, as part and parcel of "The American Dream" of " a house with a lawn and white picket fence".... I think it is past time to drastically rethink that
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  #19  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:12 PM
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fazool fazool is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes the amount of water used for lawns in the US is huge. And arguably in large part "unnecessary" Especially now with what is known about Xeriscape alternatives ....

And IMO even though lawns were inexorably etched into the American psyche, as part and parcel of "The American Dream" of " a house with a lawn and white picket fence".... I think it is past time to drastically rethink that
Agreed !

Although a much smaller size, golf courses are disproportionately devastating to the environment. They use MASSIVELY more water than food irrigation and much more chemicals.
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:15 PM
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fazool fazool is offline
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Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
...people have to live somewhere and out west there are very few places that aren’t experiencing more drought…...


There is a fabulous Sam Kinnison joke about curing world hunger and he says

"You want to stop world hunger? Stop sending those people food...Send them luggage!" Then he mimes grabbing a handful from the ground and screams " see this? its SAND.....know what its gonna be 100 years from now? its gonna be sand!....nothing grows here. Nothings EVER gonna grow here. Get your kids, get your stuff we'll make one trip. We have deserts in America - we just dont live in them. "
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  #21  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:33 PM
Riverwolf Riverwolf is offline
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Too many people.
Everywhere.
Until a nuclear winter or a far worse pandemic, things will only get worse.
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  #22  
Old 06-11-2021, 02:04 PM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDB View Post
Common sense would dictate that areas affected by these water issues would stop issuing building permits.

Unfortunately governments and common sense don't mix well together.
I wish it were as simple as “the government” implementing an appropriate plan....

Last edited by Kerbie; 06-13-2021 at 08:11 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-11-2021, 02:51 PM
MrDB MrDB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
Reality check…80 percent of Colorado River water goes to agriculture….not that every drop doesn’t count….as far as building permits go…people have to live somewhere and out west there are very few places that aren’t experiencing more drought…

…water saving measures with regards to both agricultural and real estate development are nothing new….I remember restrictions being placed on water use going back more than 30 years in California….and nearly as long for ranchers here in Oregon….conservation efforts have been ongoing through all these years and progress has been made….

….hopefully our present drought will end sooner rather than later but we should prepare for tighter restrictions and increased food costs until they do….
Yes, good point. Mind said "water permits", fingers typed "building permits". Ag is a big user no doubt. At some point rationing and zero growth water usage is going to be necessary.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:13 PM
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guitargabor guitargabor is offline
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Originally Posted by Riverwolf View Post
Too many people.
Everywhere.
Until a nuclear winter or a far worse pandemic, things will only get worse.
agree-

It's the root cause of most of society's problems.....

I predict that the water shortage globally will lead to WW3
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  #25  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:20 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDB View Post
Common sense would dictate that areas affected by these water issues would stop issuing building permits.

Unfortunately governments and common sense don't mix well together.
I’m sure the constituents and land developers have no part to play in that calculus…
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  #26  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:44 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes the amount of water used for lawns in the US is huge. And arguably in large part "unnecessary" Especially now with what is known about Xeriscape alternatives ....

And IMO even though lawns were inexorably etched into the American psyche, as part and parcel of "The American Dream" of " a house with a lawn and white picket fence".... I think it is past time to drastically rethink that
This is the proverbial drop in the bucket compared to agriculture. The only reason water rationing for residential exists is because it’s the only lever that can be pulled. Ag is too powerful to be restricted.

Want to actually make a difference in water consumption? Stop eating livestock. It’s exponentially more powerful a lever that getting rid of your lawn, which we’ve also done.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2021, 07:01 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
This is the proverbial drop in the bucket compared to agriculture. The only reason water rationing for residential exists is because it’s the only lever that can be pulled. Ag is too powerful to be restricted.

Want to actually make a difference in water consumption? Stop eating livestock. It’s exponentially more powerful a lever that getting rid of your lawn, which we’ve also done.
Agreed as I already posted big AG is a, or the, major issue. But dismissing lawn water usage as "a drop in the bucket" is bit ambiguous at best .
While estimates vary considerably (no doubt due to the difficulty in the logistics of calculating an exact number) But the EPA estimates that landscape water usage represents about 30% of residential use,,,, or something along the lines to 7 Billion gallons per day ..... While not only is 7 Billion gallons a fairly substantial "drop" but is in fact something completely arbitrary that every individual and or business .... Can actually do something about now , or relatively quickly without trying to shift diet or involving the government mandate or more regs on the "sacred cow" of Ag .. the only potential "Fly in that ointment" I see being,,,, getting many HOA's, to change priority.

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/...kPage=x&ZyPURL
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Last edited by KevWind; 06-12-2021 at 07:15 AM.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2021, 06:28 AM
Song Song is offline
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Too many people. Everywhere. Until a nuclear winter or a far worse pandemic, things will only get worse.
Things will not get better if there's a nuclear war or plague.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-2021, 06:37 AM
brad4d8 brad4d8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Photojeep View Post
....
Third, it has been determined the biggest share of water usage in LV is for residential turf grass; somewhere around 75%. By far, residential turf grass consumes far, far more than all of the Hotel/Casinos combined.
....
PJ
As an aside, many northerners who moved to AZ to get a way from allergies, apparently didn't like desert yards and planted similar plants to their familiar ones, Guess what came back.
Brad
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  #30  
Old 06-16-2021, 07:07 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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As an aside, many northerners who moved to AZ to get a way from allergies, apparently didn't like desert yards and planted similar plants to their familiar ones, Guess what came back.
Brad
That sounds entirely plausible, the reality is "We the people of earth " have a long history and unfortunately still continue attempts to inject our control over nature (both to our benefit and now proving to also be to our detriment) and in doing so have created situations that are not only shortsighted, but can , do, will continue to bite us in the behind, Until and unless we begin to change our collective perspective..

In reality it stems from leftover ingrained very real fears, we humans developed from our ancestral roots of being scattered nomadic hunter gathers who were definitely subject to the uncontrolled ebbs, flows, and whims, of nature A lingering perspective or mind set that we must "concur nature" to survive, which while true to some extent we seem to keep taking to the extreme and could eventually serve to be the mechanism of our undoing.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 06-16-2021 at 03:53 PM.
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