Clarintetist needs guitar advice - reprise

[emtsteve]

Originally Posted by cmd612

I've read both this thread and your original one and hope you don't mind me saying this: you're doing something that I'm often guilty of myself: overthinking, in a big way. We could continue this discussion for months, and at the end of it you will know no more about YOUR preferences for sound and feel than you do now.

The all-mahogany might be satisfactory for a one-and-only. It might not. You might love a 1.75" nut. You might prefer 1-11/16, or 1-23/32, or 1-13/16. You might find a v-neck uncomfortable, or it might be perfect for you. You might be comfortable with a 25.4" scale, or you might find the lower string tension of a short scale easier. You might like a Larrivee, or you might find that you prefer the sound of a Martin.

The only way you will ever find out what your preferences are is to play guitar. You can solicit advice from strangers on the internet for years, but we can't tell you what your hands and ears will prefer any more than we can pick your favorite ice cream flavor for you.

My suggestion at this point: just buy a guitar. Whatever you think, right now, that you'll like most. You've done a lot of research and have some good candidates. If you really think the sound of the all-mahogany is too limiting for what you want to do, get a spruce top. If you're just repeating what you've heard others say about all-mahogany guitars being specialized, then I'd say you need to trust your own ears and get the 000-15. They don't know what you like. If you're not comfortable spending that much when you aren't sure what you want, buy something inexpensive - with the understanding that once you get to a point where you can play a bit, you'll go to some stores and really audition guitars.

Then, after you've been playing for a year or two, if you find that there's something about your guitar, whether it's a 000-15SM or something else, that annoys you - whether it's sound or feel - you'll be in a great position to go and audition a wide range of guitars and find what you really love. Or maybe that won't happen, and you'll be comfortable with the guitar you have and enjoying making music and not be bothered about whether something else out there might be "better."

Just my 2 cents, and probably worth what you paid for it.

I tend to agree. Just pull the trigger. All of the guitars you've mentioned should be fine 1st guitars. And have the quality to be your only guitar if it turns out to be what suits your ears and hands.

FWIW, I love the 15 series Martins and could happily exist with only my 000-15M.

There are a couple 000's in the classifieds here that look fantastic too. If you decide on a spruce top, then any one of these, or a new 000-18 would be a great choice too.

Good luck in your search and be sure to keep us updated!

Steve

[pszy22]

I know what I am about to say is the minority opinion, but here goes --

I agree with the One and Done theory, as long as you know what it is you want. It always seem to me that the gist of these types of discussion are akin to deciding to buy a 10 gallon vat of ice cream, and asking the guy/gal in line behind you what flavor to get.

I'd suggest you purchase a $200-300 yamaha, or some equivalent. Play it for 6 or 12 months, then pull the trigger on your life long instrument. You can always easily sell the cheapy, but you might find it is nice to have around. I think an important part of learning to play is to have a guitar out, on a stand, within easy reach. Pick it up and play for even 5 - 10 minutes. Don't worry about leaving it out if you have kids/grandkids/dogs, etc. You have something to take along when you go to the beach or a bonfire. You have a spare to loan a friend who is over for dinner, etc, etc It's really not too important what your instrument sounds like those first few months, you are learning the basics not recording or performing (and quite honestly, many of the lower price point instruments don't sound all that bad)

[roylor4]

I would not rule out 14 fret guitars if I were you. Yes, 12 fretters do have a different tone, but it is not necessarily better - just different.

You can get a very nice 3 series Larrivee for just over 1k herehttp://www.notableguitars.com/Larrivee2.html

While many say Hog tops guitars are not as versatile, they do have a place for many of us. Mine is not my best sounding guitar, but sonically it meshes better with my voice than Spruce/Rosewood. Spruce/Hog is my second go to, but I own all three.

The 40 series and up Larrivees are more Martin-esque tone-wise than the other less expensive series like the 1,2 & 3. Larrivees are know for their balanced tone and while that is perfect for some, others prefer more boom in the bass department.

For sheer quality of build and value for the $, Larrivees are hard to beat.

[mountainguitar]

Hello David-

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of the acoustic guitar! There is something wonderful about playing a guitar and feeling the sound vibrate in the box. It's a great way to make music! And I also love the Martin mahogany sound.

I went back and checked out your last thread, as I was intrigued by a clarinetist posting on AGF. I started my musical journey playing clarinet as a 4th grader and then bass clarinet through jr high and into high school. And then I picked up the French horn in 9th grade and that became my primary instrument all the way through college. My dad had a nylon classical guitar that he never learned to play, so I picked it up and learned basic cowboy chords as a kid. The lessons and the time went into the other instruments, not guitar.

And then about 7 years ago, my church needed a guitar player for a very small service they run each week and I got drafted. And after having gotten a not great starter guitar at Guitar Center, I quickly realized I wasn't happy with the tone of the instrument. I went to a nice guitar store locally, and ended up walking out with a Martin OM15- which is a 14 fret Mahogany model. The tone was warmer and richer than the others I played that day and I fell in love with it, in spite of it's more expensive price tag. I loaned the Martin to a friend a few years ago, but I'm getting it back this summer as she is moving home to South Africa. And I'm looking forward to having it around again.

What I was told by one of my guitar teachers early on was that I had a good ear. And what I've wrestled with is my ear has always been ahead of my playing. I could hear and feel the siren song of a great guitar way before I could play it in any way well. But having a great instrument and loving the tone that it makes, even if I'm just strumming a simple chord, has been deeply fulfilling. And I've found as I've ventured into the world of luthier built instruments, I've continued to gravitate towards a warmer tone, cedar and redwood topped guitars, etc... They work beautifully for finger style and learning the steel string guitar as a lyrical instrument has been really fun and fits my background as an instrumentalist. And I still find myself gravitating towards picking up the all mahogany guitars when I'm in a local guitar store.

All that to say... I would encourage you to trust what sounds best to you and feels right to your soul. If it's an all mahogany Martin, you may get covered up if you are playing with others who have spruce topped dreads and they're thumping on them. That happens... And maybe if you gravitate towards bluegrass eventually and want to flatpack with that bright sound, you may find yourself wanting a second guitar that can do other styles. The variety of tone available depending upon the woods and the builder is one of the wonderful things about acoustic guitar that is different than wind instruments. And it can make it difficult for some of us to find just "the one."

I'm interested to hear what guitar you end up gravitating towards and to eventually hear the music you make with it. I'm sure it's going to be wonderful!

My best to you-

beth

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by bmh1

Hello David-

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of the acoustic guitar! There is something wonderful about playing a guitar and feeling the sound vibrate in the box. It's a great way to make music! And I also love the Martin mahogany sound.

I went back and checked out your last thread, as I was intrigued by a clarinetist posting on AGF. I started my musical journey playing clarinet as a 4th grader and then bass clarinet through jr high and into high school. And then I picked up the French horn in 9th grade and that became my primary instrument all the way through college. My dad had a nylon classical guitar that he never learned to play, so I picked it up and learned basic cowboy chords as a kid. The lessons and the time went into the other instruments, not guitar.

And then about 7 years ago, my church needed a guitar player for a very small service they run each week and I got drafted. And after having gotten a not great starter guitar at Guitar Center, I quickly realized I wasn't happy with the tone of the instrument. I went to a nice guitar store locally, and ended up walking out with a Martin OM15- which is a 14 fret Mahogany model. The tone was warmer and richer than the others I played that day and I fell in love with it, in spite of it's more expensive price tag. I loaned the Martin to a friend a few years ago, but I'm getting it back this summer as she is moving home to South Africa. And I'm looking forward to having it around again.

What I was told by one of my guitar teachers early on was that I had a good ear. And what I've wrestled with is my ear has always been ahead of my playing. I could hear and feel the siren song of a great guitar way before I could play it in any way well. But having a great instrument and loving the tone that it makes, even if I'm just strumming a simple chord, has been deeply fulfilling. And I've found as I've ventured into the world of luthier built instruments, I've continued to gravitate towards a warmer tone, cedar and redwood topped guitars, etc... They work beautifully for finger style and learning the steel string guitar as a lyrical instrument has been really fun and fits my background as an instrumentalist. And I still find myself gravitating towards picking up the all mahogany guitars when I'm in a local guitar store.

All that to say... I would encourage you to trust what sounds best to you and feels right to your soul. If it's an all mahogany Martin, you may get covered up if you are playing with others who have spruce topped dreads and they're thumping on them. That happens... And maybe if you gravitate towards bluegrass eventually and want to flatpack with that bright sound, you may find yourself wanting a second guitar that can do other styles. The variety of tone available depending upon the woods and the builder is one of the wonderful things about acoustic guitar that is different than wind instruments. And it can make it difficult for some of us to find just "the one."

I'm interested to hear what guitar you end up gravitating towards and to eventually hear the music you make with it. I'm sure it's going to be wonderful!

My best to you-

beth

Beth,
OP here. thanks for sharing your story. You have had quite an interesting musical journey. While I ended up with the $50 Bundy clarinet, I really wanted to lay the French horn, like you. It was so cool looking - like steel intestines. Good for you for developing the embouchure skills to play two very challenging instruments at opposite ends of the spectrum.
The disconnect between your skill level in the beginning and your ear is something that I will confront as well. Having played for woodwinds for well over 50 years, and being a performer, I have definite expectations about the music I make. With the guitar, my brain will most certainly be well ahead of my hands. That said, I wonder if your skills as a musician transferred in some fashion, or that a conceptual understanding of music helped you to understand the guitar. You came to the guitar knowing what a scale sounds like. I recall grabbing a stand up bass once. And after a short time, I figured out the intervals and could put some scales and even a few decent notes together. Same is true when I picked up a mandolin. I am hoping that something similar will happen once I pick up my new obsession.
I hope that you still find time to pick up the clarinet and French Horn from time to time. I have a bass clarinet as well. It is a bit of a beast to play, but those low low octave notes shake the floorboards.
By the way, this should be in my mailbox in a few days:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Larrivee-Cu...8/392235179200.
Most people, and guitars, go south to Fla this time of year, not north to Maine.
Best to you.
David

[mountainguitar]

Congratulations David! Larrivees are great instruments and I really like the 000 size guitars. They're great for finger style and they often will have a solid bass, which I like. I'm sure you'll enjoy making music with this instrument!

If you're currently in Maine, you may want to search around this site a bit for information about letting the guitar acclimate to the inside temp before unpacking it. You'll find a ton of posts about this. I'm in Southern CA, so I've never had to worry about it. And then once you open it, you can post a picture here so we can all "ooh and ahh" over it!

I agree that all of your musical knowledge will just benefit you and transfer well into the world of making music on the guitar. Scales are more intuitive for me and I can hear the chords and figure out where my melody line is within the chords, etc... Having my music depend upon my hand eye coordination has been more challenging. I was used to having my embouchure and breath handle the nuance that now has to come from my fingers. It's been challenging but fun!

Enjoy your new Larrivee!!!

beth

[Sax Player Guy]

Congrats on the Larrivee purchase, David! Reading your posts has been almost a bit eerie for me, because you are sort of my Doppelgänger. I, too, recently took up the guitar, and I am also a longtime saxophonist (I still have my wonderful old 1959 R13 that I bought from an old teacher of mine, but I've pretty much given up the misery stick). Also, I recently purchased a Larrivee. For the past few months I have stopped into dozens of guitar stores and tried out I don't know how many guitars. I had read somewhere that it's a good idea to try out a zillion of them to get an idea of what I like. Also like you, I listened to a jillion youtube videos, including a ton of Tony Polecastro's vids. I really like the Martin 000-15M a lot, and I almost bought a Martin 00017, but as soon as I tried a Larrivee OM-40 (sitka spruce top with mahogany back and sides) it just spoke to me. I've had it for a couple of weeks now, and I could not be happier with it. What a beautiful sound. Smaller than a dreadnought, but has a nice bottom to it, and also a nice shimmer up high, and it is great for fingerpicking. I need to figure out how to sound less jangly when strumming (different strings? different pick? better technique?), but I imagine I'll figure that out eventually.

Anyway, I just wanted to reassure you that you made a great call with the Larrivee. The one I got is absolutely stunning, and I am thrilled with it. Elsewhere on this forum I have noted that guitar players with far more experience than I'll ever have have said that Larrivees are remarkably consistent, so it appears you need not worry about getting one through the mail.

By the way, I have had the pleasure of playing in Maine (saxophone, not guitar!), and I loved it there! One of my favorite states. I look forward to reading of your experiences with the new "horn"!

[Bernieman]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

(...) By the way, this should be in my mailbox in a few days:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Larrivee-Cu...8/392235179200.
Most people, and guitars, go south to Fla this time of year, not north to Maine.
Best to you.
David

Looks like a rather unbeatable choice...Hope everything works okay...
Jim got you into going for a Larrivée then : they have a good reputation. When I started looking for a Martin guitar (many years ago), the seller i talked to advised me to get a Larrivée too : they were more even and cheaper he said...
Jim too, advised me to go for a Larrivée at he time I was looking for a cheaper guitar for live work : but I only buy guitars after playing them a little while and checking them out. These guitars are quite rare in France, and not so well known : I tried one only once, a D-60 E it must have been called (sitka/rosewood acoustic-electric dreadnought). Good quality, but I did want a Martin at the time and the guy wanted quite a bit...I don't know them well then, but it surely is a make to count with. And a U.S. made Custom Shop at that price seems unbelievable...

Congrats and hope you won't miss the all-mahogany set-up.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by bmh1

Congratulations David! Larrivees are great instruments and I really like the 000 size guitars. They're great for finger style and they often will have a solid bass, which I like. I'm sure you'll enjoy making music with this instrument!

If you're currently in Maine, you may want to search around this site a bit for information about letting the guitar acclimate to the inside temp before unpacking it. You'll find a ton of posts about this. I'm in Southern CA, so I've never had to worry about it. And then once you open it, you can post a picture here so we can all "ooh and ahh" over it!

I agree that all of your musical knowledge will just benefit you and transfer well into the world of making music on the guitar. Scales are more intuitive for me and I can hear the chords and figure out where my melody line is within the chords, etc... Having my music depend upon my hand eye coordination has been more challenging. I was used to having my embouchure and breath handle the nuance that now has to come from my fingers. It's been challenging but fun!

Enjoy your new Larrivee!!!

beth

B,
Thanks again for the insight and encouragement. The guitar is on its way. I am grateful for the unpacking precaution. It would never have occurred to me not to crack that box open the minute it gets here. I will definitely research the issue. Actually, the Larrivee site has a great tutorial on the effect of too much or too little humidity. Sounds like excess is not as bad because swollen wood returns to its shape. But too little can turn the guitar into a stringed potato chip - sort of. I plan to get a case humidifier, and a room unit as well.
You mention your interest in luthier-built guitars. My goodness, there are some great beauties out there - reminds me of Satchmo's tune "Sweethearts On Parade." Actually, today I was in my home town, Lewiston, Maine, visiting family. This is also where Dana Bourgeois makes his stringed jewel boxes. Actually, I met him around 40 years ago, and may have played some contra-dances with him as well (me on the whistle). I gave his shop a wide berth today. No need to get sucked into the vortex quite yet.
I definitely will post images when the Larrivee arrives. But I just cannot wait till June to unpack it....
Best to you.
David

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Sax Player Guy

Congrats on the Larrivee purchase, David! Reading your posts has been almost a bit eerie for me, because you are sort of my Doppelgänger. I, too, recently took up the guitar, and I am also a longtime saxophonist (I still have my wonderful old 1959 R13 that I bought from an old teacher of mine, but I've pretty much given up the misery stick). Also, I recently purchased a Larrivee. For the past few months I have stopped into dozens of guitar stores and tried out I don't know how many guitars. I had read somewhere that it's a good idea to try out a zillion of them to get an idea of what I like. Also like you, I listened to a jillion youtube videos, including a ton of Tony Polecastro's vids. I really like the Martin 000-15M a lot, and I almost bought a Martin 00017, but as soon as I tried a Larrivee OM-40 (sitka spruce top with mahogany back and sides) it just spoke to me. I've had it for a couple of weeks now, and I could not be happier with it. What a beautiful sound. Smaller than a dreadnought, but has a nice bottom to it, and also a nice shimmer up high, and it is great for fingerpicking. I need to figure out how to sound less jangly when strumming (different strings? different pick? better technique?), but I imagine I'll figure that out eventually.

Anyway, I just wanted to reassure you that you made a great call with the Larrivee. The one I got is absolutely stunning, and I am thrilled with it. Elsewhere on this forum I have noted that guitar players with far more experience than I'll ever have have said that Larrivees are remarkably consistent, so it appears you need not worry about getting one through the mail.

By the way, I have had the pleasure of playing in Maine (saxophone, not guitar!), and I loved it there! One of my favorite states. I look forward to reading of your experiences with the new "horn"!

Totally cool. And your first post as well. Perhaps you and me and Beth could start a sub-forum for recovering winds players.
Very happy to hear that you ended up with a Larrivee that speaks to you. No one has anything but good things to say. Did you end up with a new or used "horn"?
You got a Buffet R13 from the "golden age." Keep it safe. At some point, you may have a hankering to put to back together and give it a blow. Where did you play in Maine, and are you still playing sax? As I think I mentioned above, I am playing lead tenor in an 18 piece big band. Nothing like it.
Thanks again for reaching out. Wish you all the best.
David

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

By the way, this should be in my mailbox in a few days:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Larrivee-Cu...8/392235179200.
Most people, and guitars, go south to Fla this time of year, not north to Maine.
Best to you.
David

Congratulations, this looks like a definite winner and lifetime guitar. I am looking forward to a review.

[emtsteve]

That Larrivee is a beauty - I love the detail on the tuning keys. Awesome choice and I'm sure it will give you great joy.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by merlin666

Congratulations, this looks like a definite winner and lifetime guitar. I am looking forward to a review.

Originally Posted by emtsteve

That Larrivee is a beauty - I love the detail on the tuning keys. Awesome choice and I'm sure it will give you great joy.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and support.
Actually, it arrived just a few minutes ago. Since Beth (above) told me that the new baby has to acclimate from cold to room temp, I am just staring at the box, waiting for an hour or so before I crack it open. Like when your mom warned you to stay out of the water for at least an hour after you eat lunch, or you would most surely die from muscle cramps. At least, that is how I remember it. Have to say, surrounded in cardboard, the Larrivee does not look like much.

[Sax Player Guy]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Totally cool. And your first post as well. Perhaps you and me and Beth could start a sub-forum for recovering winds players.
Very happy to hear that you ended up with a Larrivee that speaks to you. No one has anything but good things to say. Did you end up with a new or used "horn"?
You got a Buffet R13 from the "golden age." Keep it safe. At some point, you may have a hankering to put to back together and give it a blow. Where did you play in Maine, and are you still playing sax? As I think I mentioned above, I am playing lead tenor in an 18 piece big band. Nothing like it.
Thanks again for reaching out. Wish you all the best.
David

Yeah, first post! Been lurking for a while. I really enjoy this site and have learned so much from the posters here. Very grateful for the existence of this forum. The Larrivee I got was new. I visited the Larrivee website and clicked on their "find a dealer near you" button. To my pleasant surprise I found that there is a dealer less than an hour from me. Drove down and they had five or six to choose from.

I'm still playing the saxophone; mostly jazz. I've been to Maine a couple of times. I played at USM, and one time I judged at a jazz festival up north in 'The County.' I loved the scenery and the people up there. All the best to you, David. Now I'm wondering how many woodwind players are on this forum...

[Gordon Currie]

It looks like you made a great choice. The moonwood spruce that Jean Larrivee gets tends to be stellar in tone. (My wife got some from him for a custom build that is currently in process.)

A lot of people love mahogany, I do not care for it myself. I predict that you won't miss it.

Obligatory woodwind content: I played sax as a tween for a few years and picked it up FAR quicker than guitar (I had a semi-pro grandfather who tutored me). But the inability to do chords AND singing doomed it once I became a teenager. I tried again at sixteen and realized I had lost my embouchure. The only thing I retain from that time is the ability to read single-line music.