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  #76  
Old 07-12-2020, 06:30 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by archerscreek View Post
I know at least a dozen (probably 15-20) people that have been tested in Wisconsin and Louisiana. Everyone has gotten their results back within the next day. Some got it back the same day.
I wish your experience would be same as ours in WI but we have close to 1000 employees spread across 4 locations, and we've been dealing with this for months now.

Some public testing sites scheduled to close are back open again and that's a good thing but it's not an overall great scenario. It's not fast or particularly consistent. As far as employees and their families seeking tests, the PR statements and marketing from health care providers and some political leaders paints a better picture than you see in our scenario. That makes the public sites still open or open again a good thing even if response is 3-7 days.

We watch the RT live site (not Russia TV) among others to help know the trends and advise staff the best we can.

https://rt.live

If you look at the trends you will know why we are upping our already extensive changes in the enterprise. It's not looked good after the state supreme court guaranteed we would not have have the sort of planning and policies that would aid a problem spread across a lot of people and places.

Frankly, it's crazy. The way we have so many public facing staff at it for this long now illustrates that we have a public health problem. People get sick. We try and manage it as best as possible and all over in it we face a troublesome element that makes just managing an obvious problem difficult.

Right now we're making a second generation of barriers for kitchen workers, and will keep some business units closed longer.

Months into this I also have new insights on some closings people disagree with. It does not take many missing people to have an impact on business. We've also had really good people retire and leave.
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  #77  
Old 07-12-2020, 08:28 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Here in New York State, my wife and I went to a public, free-of-cost, drive-through facility at 5:30 PM on Friday afternoon on June 12, 2020, and on Monday morning, June 15, 2020, we received our positive test results. All I had to do to get the test was call the New York State Hotline at about 3:00 PM Friday, June 12, and register for testing for my wife and I. Typically, you get a two-hour waiting time from registration to the designated testing time. We got to the testing facility at about 5:15 PM and drove straight through each checkpoint in the process, got our tests, and were out of there by 5:30 PM. There were only two other cars at the facility for testing. Quick and easy!
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  #78  
Old 07-12-2020, 09:04 AM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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My sister-in-law lives in New Jersey, works in NYC. She was tested on Monday, because someone at her place of work died of COVID19 the week before, and exposed the whole staff earlier in the week before she figured out she was sick (she died within days of being admitted to the hospital). My SIL developed a fever before she was tested (part of the reason for the test) and now has had a fever for 8 days. Her husband has had a fever for 3 days. Both are in their late 70’s.

Lots of variation, but in general, too many delays with testing and not nearly enough resources devoted to contact tracing.
  #79  
Old 07-12-2020, 10:00 AM
catdaddy catdaddy is offline
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The state of Florida just announced that 15,300 new cases of COVID-19 were reported yesterday. Remember when there was speculation that virus cases might drop in the summer, and we'd have to be concerned about a second wave in the fall?
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  #80  
Old 07-12-2020, 10:14 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by catdaddy View Post
The state of Florida just announced that 15,300 new cases of COVID-19 were reported yesterday. Remember when there was speculation that virus cases might drop in the summer, and we'd have to be concerned about a second wave in the fall?
There seems to be a whole lot of "talk talk" and speculation and fake experts everywhere. I wish that everybody would just shut up and let the real experts speak and stop all the confusion and controversy. To me, it seems the real experts are those who are doing the actual research, those actually working on the front lines, and hopefully among these, only the ones who are willing to admit what they don't know for certain vs what they now do know (i.e. up to the current point at which they are speaking).

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 07-12-2020 at 10:53 AM.
  #81  
Old 07-12-2020, 10:38 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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Not that many posts ago, we were all advised to think "positive". I guess Floridians got a little carried away.
  #82  
Old 07-12-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
There seems to be a whole lot of "talk talk" and speculation and fake experts everywhere. I wish that everybody would just shut up and let the real experts speak and stop all the confusion and controversy. To me, it seems the real experts are those who are doing the actual research, those actually working on the front lines, and hopefully among these, only the ones who are willing to admit what they don't know for certain vs what they now do know (i.e. up to the current point at which they are speaking).

Tony

It's important to distinguish erroneous and idle speculation from fact-based theorizing used to illuminate possible scenarios that could unfold. The speculation that there might be a summer decline was shared by several epidemiologists in the early stages of this pandemic, and was given with the caveat that this might happen if COVID-19 behaves in the way that influenza does. These weren't fake experts, they were real experts in the field of epidemiology, and the statement was a cautionary one with respect to a possible resurgence similar to the influenza epidemic of 1918.

This was an example of real concern for public health posited at a time when educating people about how diseases can spread during an epidemic was deemed necessary. The fact that the empirical data now indicates that COVID-19 is not following the expected course of an influenza pandemic (with a summer reduction in cases) doesn't mean that the original speculation was inappropriate or cavalier. I mentioned the most recent Florida daily case number in the context of this speculation to emphasize that we're continuing to learn about COVID-19, and that predicting its path going forward is not going to be easy even for real experts.
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  #83  
Old 07-12-2020, 02:27 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catdaddy View Post
It's important to distinguish erroneous and idle speculation from fact-based theorizing used to illuminate possible scenarios that could unfold. The speculation that there might be a summer decline was shared by several epidemiologists in the early stages of this pandemic, and was given with the caveat that this might happen if COVID-19 behaves in the way that influenza does. These weren't fake experts, they were real experts in the field of epidemiology, and the statement was a cautionary one with respect to a possible resurgence similar to the influenza epidemic of 1918.

This was an example of real concern for public health posited at a time when educating people about how diseases can spread during an epidemic was deemed necessary. The fact that the empirical data now indicates that COVID-19 is not following the expected course of an influenza pandemic (with a summer reduction in cases) doesn't mean that the original speculation was inappropriate or cavalier. I mentioned the most recent Florida daily case number in the context of this speculation to emphasize that we're continuing to learn about COVID-19, and that predicting its path going forward is not going to be easy even for real experts.
Everybody is learning about COVID-19 together and, yes, there will be things said by those researching, that will be corrected later. Those are not the fake experts. The fake experts are those blathering away with all manner of statistics and opinions in forums, on youtube and wherever else they can find a podium.

If it was the researchers and front line people ONLY who were out there making statements, then there would be far less noise. If we ONLY heard from the people who really know what they are talking about as a direct result of their work on COVID-19, there would be far less confusion and any corrections made to their previous statements as knowledge matures, would be clearly heard and understood for what it is.

That is what I was talking about.

Tony
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  #84  
Old 07-12-2020, 06:28 PM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
Everybody is learning about COVID-19 together and, yes, there will be things said by those researching, that will be corrected later. Those are not the fake experts. The fake experts are those blathering away with all manner of statistics and opinions in forums, on youtube and wherever else they can find a podium.

If it was the researchers and front line people ONLY who were out there making statements, then there would be far less noise. If we ONLY heard from the people who really know what they are talking about as a direct result of their work on COVID-19, there would be far less confusion and any corrections made to their previous statements as knowledge matures, would be clearly heard and understood for what it is.

That is what I was talking about.

Tony
Maybe you could consider not reading things that you don’t find helpful to you?
  #85  
Old 07-12-2020, 08:30 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by buddyhu View Post
Maybe you could consider not reading things that you don’t find helpful to you?
There is a lot of confusion around about what to do and not do. It isn't just me. I do what is recommended, but see a lot of people who seemed confused. There is too much "information" floating around.

Tony
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  #86  
Old 07-12-2020, 11:58 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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I find this kind of interesting (and don't shoot the messenger):

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../09/2008868117

"Before vaccination and other intervention measures become available, successful containment of an unknown infectious disease critically relies on people’s voluntary compliance with the recommended social-distancing guidelines. This involves a decision process of prioritizing the merits of social distancing over its costs, which may depend on one’s ability to compare multiple pieces of potentially conflicting information regarding social distancing in working memory. Our data support this hypothesis, highlighting the critical role of one’s working memory capacity in social-distancing compliance during the early stage of the coronavirus disease 2019 pandemic. This observation reveals a core cognitive limitation in one’s response to a public health crisis and suggests a possible cognitive venue for the development of strategies to mitigate this challenge.

Noncompliance with social distancing during the early stage of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic poses a great challenge to the public health system. These noncompliance behaviors partly reflect people’s concerns for the inherent costs of social distancing while discounting its public health benefits. We propose that this oversight may be associated with the limitation in one’s mental capacity to simultaneously retain multiple pieces of information in working memory (WM) for rational decision making that leads to social-distancing compliance. We tested this hypothesis in 850 United States residents during the first 2 wk following the presidential declaration of national emergency because of the COVID-19 pandemic. We found that participants’ social-distancing compliance at this initial stage could be predicted by individual differences in WM capacity, partly due to increased awareness of benefits over costs of social distancing among higher WM capacity individuals. Critically, the unique contribution of WM capacity to the individual differences in social-distancing compliance could not be explained by other psychological and socioeconomic factors (e.g., moods, personality, education, and income levels). Furthermore, the critical role of WM capacity in social-distancing compliance can be generalized to the compliance with another set of rules for social interactions, namely the fairness norm, in Western cultures. Collectively, our data reveal contributions of a core cognitive process underlying social-distancing compliance during the early stage of the COVID-19 pandemic, highlighting a potential cognitive venue for developing strategies to mitigate a public health crisis."
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  #87  
Old 07-13-2020, 04:43 AM
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Well this should be popular Robj
  #88  
Old 07-13-2020, 05:21 AM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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I find this kind of interesting (and don't shoot the messenger):

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../09/2008868117

"Before vaccination and other intervention measures become available, successful containment of an unknown infectious disease critically relies on people’s voluntary compliance with the recommended social-distancing guidelines. This involves a decision process of prioritizing the merits of social distancing over its costs, which may depend on one’s ability to compare multiple pieces of potentially conflicting information regarding social distancing in working memory. Our data support this hypothesis, highlighting the critical role of one’s working memory capacity in social-distancing compliance during the early stage of the coronavirus disease 2019 pandemic. This observation reveals a core cognitive limitation in one’s response to a public health crisis and suggests a possible cognitive venue for the development of strategies to mitigate this challenge.

Noncompliance with social distancing during the early stage of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic poses a great challenge to the public health system. These noncompliance behaviors partly reflect people’s concerns for the inherent costs of social distancing while discounting its public health benefits. We propose that this oversight may be associated with the limitation in one’s mental capacity to simultaneously retain multiple pieces of information in working memory (WM) for rational decision making that leads to social-distancing compliance. We tested this hypothesis in 850 United States residents during the first 2 wk following the presidential declaration of national emergency because of the COVID-19 pandemic. We found that participants’ social-distancing compliance at this initial stage could be predicted by individual differences in WM capacity, partly due to increased awareness of benefits over costs of social distancing among higher WM capacity individuals. Critically, the unique contribution of WM capacity to the individual differences in social-distancing compliance could not be explained by other psychological and socioeconomic factors (e.g., moods, personality, education, and income levels). Furthermore, the critical role of WM capacity in social-distancing compliance can be generalized to the compliance with another set of rules for social interactions, namely the fairness norm, in Western cultures. Collectively, our data reveal contributions of a core cognitive process underlying social-distancing compliance during the early stage of the COVID-19 pandemic, highlighting a potential cognitive venue for developing strategies to mitigate a public health crisis."
VERY interesting. Thanks Robj!

I tend to agree with Paul: this might not land very well with some folks who read and/or post to this thread. We will see...
  #89  
Old 07-13-2020, 07:31 AM
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My neck of the woods....so to speak Working Memory is what we call Common Sense! Which some say isn’t so Common anymore! ☺️
  #90  
Old 07-13-2020, 07:59 AM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Jennifer Kastead analyzed the data on 'airborne transmission of aerosols' and found there was little factual reason to be concerned.

The recommendations made by 200 health science professionals last week to the W.H.O. that we be concerned about aerosol transmission of COVD do not seem to be epidemiologically significant according to all the studies.

So COVD is clearly, still, transmitted in a 2 meter cone in front of us consisting of droplets, not aerosolized particles. Those droplets allow the virus to die very fast once they fall to the floor. The idea that some virus particles exist in the air and linger appears to be false. So this nonsense about refusing seniors in long term care air conditioning to protect them must come to an end.

Whenever you even speak, COVD can be released, but it is in droplet form, it does not float around like a gas.

Hope this helps clear up some confusion. In this case those 200 scientists appear to be wrong and causing un-needed concern and in some cases, where they are denying seniors air conditioning in 100+ F weather, dangerous.

Scientific data is our friend.
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