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  #16  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:26 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Originally Posted by Tico View Post
Here's RME's introduction to TotalMix FX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkxz...k&index=2&t=0s
The thing I miss most about not using RME these days is TotalMix. It really worked well.
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  #17  
Old 06-30-2020, 07:00 PM
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Ive had a Babyface Pro for a few years. Love it, and Total Mix works really well. I opted for the Pro as it had the connections built in vs breakout cables. Occasionally ive thought about upgrading to something with more inputs. I should just get an external preamp for the two line inputs
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:44 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tico View Post
+1 on the RME Babyface Pro.
My mics aren't up there with Schoeps, only 414s and Sennheiser 441s but the sound through the Babyface pres is fantastic.

FWIW, RME's original was called just Babyface.
A couple years back it was upgraded, and is now called Babyface Pro.
I just mention this because you can probably find the old one much cheaper used if you want to affordably step up to RME's stable converters and drivers.

It comes bundled with clever mixing/routing software (TotalMix FX) that, let's just say, does things differently.
It was not intuitive for me.
Fortunately RME has a Youtube channel with training vids.

Here's RME's introduction to the Babyface Pro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4F8kb95PU&t=10s

Here's RME's introduction to TotalMix FX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkxz...k&index=2&t=0s
I still use the original Babyface because I prefer the breakout cable for the way I route my cables!

For learning how to use Total Mix I find these people make great instructional videos. And they offer a free 7 day trial which could get you well on your way in understanding Total Mix!
https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/RM...-Mix-Explained
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:46 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Save some money and thought for room acoustics treatment. That will make the biggest impact on your recorded sound.
true, that will always help!
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:43 AM
Tico Tico is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I still use the original Babyface because I prefer the breakout cable for the way I route my cables!

For learning how to use Total Mix I find these people make great instructional videos. And they offer a free 7 day trial which could get you well on your way in understanding Total Mix!
https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/RM...-Mix-Explained
Thanks much for the PSA on groove3 tutorial videos.
I love it; It's just what the doctor ordered!
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  #21  
Old 07-05-2020, 01:20 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Thanks for everyone's suggestions and great info.
I spent hours debating and reading-researching Babyface pro, Audient ID44, Craneborne audio's Mic pres. To go with new interface, or to use existing interface and go with new pres, was the question at hand.
Most reviewers who had owned or used both BabyFace Pro and Audient ID44, thought that the Babyface pro had slightly better- more opensounding pres that Audient.
For some though, they still thought the BabyFace Pro pres were higher quality...but liked the Musicality of the Audient better. Further stating that the Audient brought forth that Analog warmth, and was still open and clear.
Audient users who own the ID22 and moved up tot he ID44 said that they could hear a clear difference in the newer design of converters in the ID44. Fatter, clearer, more open. And some even said that in comparison to the BabyFace Pro the Audient converters seemed better.
Craneborne has been the one that has really intrigued myself. It has outstanding reviews by pro reviewers and end users for a price that is way, way below the standard of high quality pres. But if I choose the pres, that would mean that I would be using my older Scarlet converters....of which most all have said would not effect the sound.
I have finally made my decision. A good part of my decision it is based on work flow ease. I am an old guy who was brought up on the hands on thesis. (Hard to teach an old guy new tricks!) Audient has more of what I am use to, individual Manuel gain knobs, 48 volt on and off switch, High pass filter switch, 10db switch, mono summing & three buttons that you can assign to work with the function that you want such as polarity flip or other. I like things being out in the open. And with the Audient, it gives me more of what I am use to. I of course will still have to learn my way around the internal side of assignment and other internal features.
Possibly the biggest determining factor is that I need more than just two channels. While most likely the Schoeps will give me everything I ever needed and wanted for acoustic guitar, I still like to experiment. Experimentation is a big part of my life. I have an unusual idea using the Stereo pair of Schoeps and a third mic that I have not seen implemented in the way I will before. Most probably, this idea will not work. But hey, satisfying one's curiosity is almost always worth the price of admission. Sometimes you just got do something out of curiosity.
And since I am a singer songwriter, I need a third Channel anyway...for greater work tapes of stereo guitar and voice. And on very rare occasion, I want to take my interface with me for those wonderful friend jams. Audients 4 mic input will come in handy for those.
And the final technical aspect of the ID44 that pushed me over the top was is the fact that there are sends and returns on two of the four channels. This will allow me to add a compressor directly into the chain if I desire. But more than that, If I do add some external mic pres the Audient sends and returns will let you Bypass Both the Line input and Mic inputs. Yes, it has been well said that this is probably a mood point with today's advancement in electronics. But Us old guys get things stuck in our heads and I was taught the fewer the electronics you go through the higher the quality of sound. And I do want to add in the future some higher end mic pres.
Wish me luck I order tomorrow.
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:01 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Great Job, Knives & Guitars

Aloha Victor,

Great job of describing your thinking, gathering info, comparisons, & matching all the data & info to your specific musical needs. Well-written too!

I almost think we have too much information today that muddies the pursuit of making/recording music & especially in searching out gear. It's just too much info with not enough context. (Isn't all information just so much cheaper today than in the 20th Century? I love/hate it!) Glad we know the difference.

To newbies & others out there wanting to know how to go about upgrading your gear & how to think about it - keep this Knives & Guitar post handy. And try to audition the gear you are curious about - if you can.

Although I prefer long-proven RME & Apogee interface technologies to Audient, the Audient id44 provides the extra channels you need at a lower cost than the others & the onboard mic preamps are close enough in quality to the other two brands in terms of open sound.

I like the feature set in such a small unit as the id44. However, I never really needed the amount of controls provided by the id44. I never wanted controls on an interface because I did front-end controlling via a preamp & inside the box via the DAW. Additionally, the id44 also doesn't allow you to visually see all channel levels at once via separate meters - a step back, IMO. All I wanted in an interface was great mic pre's & great conversion, & pristine, open uncolored sound. A great preamp & DAW do most of the controlling. That's why I loved the original Duet & later the Ensemble - simple, basic design & great quality. WTF, if you don't like it, you can always return it, right Victor? That's a good way to audition gear, IMO.

RE: Adding more mic's to your mix? I upgraded from two-channel RME & Apogee intefaces to an 8-channel Apogee Ensemble just for that purpose. Once I got properly treated, I wanted to experiment with EVERY possible mic placement, miking pattern & mic combination & then find my own new ones. What fun that is! I set up in every room in the house experimenting. Taught me a lot, that process.

One of my favorites was X-Y'ing the Schoeps at around 12-16" out & then adding my 1972 U-87 LDC's wider apart at about 24-30" out. You guys may think phasing or cancellation problems woulda killed that thinking, huh? But it didn't. The experiment worked because of the angle I used for the 87's. I would not have discovered it had I, a) not fully treated my space, b) not been able to experiment because I didn't have a fully treated space, c) not invested in the greatest mic's, & d) not had more tracks available through the Ensemble. Home DAW recording really became more fun for me then.

So yeah, Victor, the four-track interface will provide many more options for your music & settings. Tell me about your own cool & favorite mic placement experiments with the new Schoeps, id44 & treatment. What's your DAW upgrade gonna be? I recommend P/T or Logic Pro. What's your voice's favorite studio LDC?

At 0-60dB of gain, I don't know if the id44 provides enough headroom for adding a ribbon mic to be used in Mid-Side recording in combo with the space-paired Schoeps. But you can clearly see an example of how Doug Young did that in that 2012 "How To Record An Acoustic Guitar Song" video I sent you awhile back - it's also on his site. He used two interfaces to accommodate his AEA R-88 Ribbon mic.

I was mic'ing it that way as well with the Schoeps in stereo & a smaller AEA R-84 Ribbon mic in M-S. It fleshed out the middle more, gave a more complete sound & provided many more editing options (ex: Two very light reverbs on the Schoeps, none on the smaller R-84 - nice effect). With 0-75dB of gain, the older Apogee Ensemble interface allowed me to add the ribbon without adding noise to the mix or having to add another interface for the ribbon alone. The Duet2 has the same gain rating.

At the end of more recording & miking adventures, I always returned to the Schoeps CMC641's, with a space-paired in stereo alone. A-B just always worked for me, even in the 70's with not so stellar mic's like SM-57's. But I loved experimenting.

Go pull that plug on the id44. Thanks Again & Good Luck Victor.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 07-06-2020 at 05:09 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:28 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tico View Post
Thanks much for the PSA on groove3 tutorial videos.
I love it; It's just what the doctor ordered!
I just ordered 3 of them two days ago!
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2020, 06:46 AM
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Itís always a treat to get new gear. Glad you were able to figure out your path to go forward. Now that the planning is done, enjoy the new Schoeps and ID44.
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