PSA: Removing smoke smell effectively

[fazool]

Recently, there was a thread about removing smells, most notably smoke, from a guitar and, especially a case.

I commented that I've tried several things but finally remembered my experiences with ozonators (aka ozone generators).

Do not confuse these with ionizers - ozonators use high voltage to create a corona which reassembles O2 into O3.

Basically, it's a little electrical lightning storm in a box. Ozone has a half-life of about 3 hours so it's pretty unstable. Ozone has a very small molecular size, so it can get deep into any non-hermetic object or material. If you flood a space with ozone, it fully permeates everything especially porous materials.

Ozone breaks down and oxides what is contacts, including particulates. It is also a strong disinfectant (and is used in swimming pools and food processing equipment). Because the oxygen reverts to O2, it is safe and leaves no unsafe material behind.

So, the difference is that ozonators are the "real deal" not some snake-oil fake hype.

An ozonator is a suitcase-sized machine that plugs into a standard 110-volt home outlet. It has a built-in fan and in inlet and output port, so it's all self-contained. There are usually output-level controls and a 0-12 hour timer.

These are probably most commonly used to remove smells, especially smoke, from hotel rooms, cars and houses-for-sale. They can be rented for about $30-40 per day from places like United Equipment Rental, ABC Rental chains, etcetera

I've had a smoky car treated and a hotel room treated. The results were nothing less than miraculous and inexplicable.

So, my son bought his first car and it had some stinkiness and the recent thread on AGF reminded me about these. I got one for the weekend and ran it in the car for about 8 hours with spectacular results.

Ozone is a serious respiratory irritant and removes breathable O2 from the air, so do not do this in an occupied place and it is NOT safe to do with pets around. For a car, you run it in the car for a long time then let the car air out for a couple hours.

So........


For a guitar or guitar case, the best way is to run this in a closed space with the guitar or open case in with it. A small closet, bathroom or car would work ideally for this.

Perfumes, febreeze, etcetera are all just masks. This is, essentially, the only recognized way of truly removing smoke smells especially from soft porous materials like fabric and wood.

I just used one this past weekend (on four cars since I had it rented all weekend) so it reminded me about some recent AGF topics and I wanted to share this info.

[Wade Hampton]

Fazool wrote an excellent, cogent post on the utility of ozonators.

Great post, Fazool. Thanks.

He also wrote this:

Originally Posted by fazool

Perfumes, febreeze, etcetera are all just masks. This is, essentially, the only recognized way of truly removing smoke smells especially from soft porous materials like fabric and wood.

Yes. Thank you. Every time I see someone recommending Febreze to get rid of foul odors from a guitar or guitar case I just sigh and roll my eyes, because all that does is squirt a little chemical-based odor on top of the existing odor. It doesn't help a thing.


whm

[Zhoffritz]

I use a small ozone generator regularly to combat the musty smell in a vacation cottage. The ozone reacts with the surfaces of materials and especially plastics. I would be very concerned about the effect on a guitar's finish or plastic pieces. However I would definitely use it to remove odor in a guitar case.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Zhoffritz

I use a small ozone generator regularly to combat the musty smell in a vacation cottage. The ozone reacts with the surfaces of materials and especially plastics. I would be very concerned about the effect on a guitar's finish or plastic pieces. However I would definitely use it to remove odor in a guitar case.

So how is it that Fazool has used these, very successfully, in cars?

I can't think of an environment more laden with plastics of all sorts.

HE

[kkrell]

Ozone DOES degrade rubber, plastics & organics, generally though only with long-time use. So, OK for quick treatments, not so great if you use one in a home on a regular, frequent basis.

[Long Jon]

Available at all good "Grow Shops".

[Jimbolaya]

I would think that it would rust frets, tuners, and metal parts before degrading plastic. Thanks for the PSA. That is good to know.

[pszy22]

Make sure you read this -

http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/enviro...fact_sheet.pdf

[cmd612]

Thanks for the tip!

For those who don't want the risks of ozone - I had pretty good results recently using white rice followed by activated carbon to remove a combination of stale smoke smell (mildly annoying) and Febreze residue (chokingly awful) from a used guitar.

Now if I can just figure out how to get out the grains of rice that got stuck in the kerfing . . . .

[lizzard]

This will sound silly but -- it works! For pennies. Get 4 baking potatoes, cut them in half length-wise. Put them in the car (or guitar case). Close it up. and leaving it for a few days. It worked perfectly when my (former) beemer was assaulted by manure.

[Treenewt]

Great post Fazool, as usual!

Can I relate a story and how I dealt with smoke smell?

About a month ago, I was asked to play at the home of a man in hospice care. He was obviously a chain smoker for many years, as the house had a very strong smoke odor. I was there for about an hour, during which time he didn't smoke, but the smell got on everything: me, my case, my Martin.

It was extremely strong...in the guitar itself and in the case. I got home, wiped my guitar down with a damp cloth and set it out. I put baking soda in the case and shut it up. After a few days, the smell was still very strong.

So I went to Bed Bath and Beyond and picked up a pack of cedar shavings. They come in small bags of six, for about $7. I put two in the case and one in the sound hole. I shut the guitar and case up and within a few days the smell was gone, replaced by a wonderful cedar scent.

My question is this: was I just masking the scent of the smoke? Or have I gotten rid of it? I can't be the first guy to think of this idea, so my curiosity was piqued when I saw Fazool's post.

[duluthdan]

I am going to poo-poo the effectiveness of an ozonater for odor elimination. I have a small one that I bought to combat the musty smell inside an old guitar case, and the '57 guitar that lived there for a long while.

I have the below pictured ozonater. Have used it in the closed case at least a half a dozen times for hours at a time, and even over night. Initially it seemed to work a bit, but only knocked down the strength of the smell a bit. Used to be you could smell this 20 feet way, now its perhaps 15 feet.

I have used this in a guitar shipping box, with the guitar inside the box, with what I will term "limited success".

With a musty smell I think one needs to approach the problem as one of "source control", and target killing the mold or spores or whatever it is that results in the odor. So far the best I have found is lightly spraying Lysol into the case, and I will do this on and off. I don't want to saturate the lining, but just give it periodic treatments. I haven't got the stones to do this inside the guitar yet, but need to do something.

[fazool]

You need a significant corona (electrical discharge arc) to create enough ozone to be meaningful. Small, compact units are gimmicks and cannot work.

As for the fear-mogering paper- I read that prevoiously as well and it is just a scare piece from someone who is completely ignorant of the topic.

O3 at ground level will float to the upper atmosphere with the ozone layer. Smog is not O3. O3 grabs onto pollutant particles from exhaust and combustion and dust. This is what makes smog.

Of course you have to use it in dangerous concentrations, you are basically rinsing everything with O3, then it dissipates on its own. Never ever use it with people or pets in the room. Just like you wouldnt bathe in bleach but you wash your clothes in it. Just like you wouldn't drink isoproyl alcohol but you rinse your medical tools in it. Of course its used in dangerously high levels, then you use it after the effects go away.

And, the piece warning about them is intending to (properly) dissuade people from using them in an occupied home.

I have no vested interest in Ozone Generators. I have experience and some basic knowledge of them and am simply sharing some info that could be helpful.

[fingerguy]

Removing smoke smell or any stinky smell I been VERY SUCCESSFUL with "unused" dryer sheets! I do not know if this can have any negative effect on the guitar so take my advice with a grain of salt. But as far as getting the smell out of the car and etc including stinky shoes it works great. The trick is changing the sheets every 24hrs. With shoes it's every time you wear them. Sometimes I just leave the sheets in the shoes as I wear them.

[ctkarslake]

I've only had to do this once but I bought a guitar that it's case stank of smoke. All I did was leave it outside on my (large) front porch and let the fresh air and sun take care of it. Worked like a charm but took about 1 week to accomplish.

Fresh air is a great odor eliminator and sunlight's UV's are great disinfectors.

Natural and free but it takes a while.