Venting about stuff

[tinnitus]

Originally Posted by guitargabor

The unscrupulous,corrupt home real estate market.

Selfish and unethical agents, deceiving sellers, blind inept home inspectors....

...

I knew a lady in San Diego County who quit her career as an appraiser. Too many times she was told on her way out to inspect a place, "We want this one to come in at $390,000." (This was last century and I suppose the numbers have doubled since then.) Sight unseen, she was being told what value to assign regardless of condition. Not unlike the county tax assessor with property values.

Fed up with that, she got her Masters and moved on to an unrelated profession. Just a fraction of the pay, but she was able to start sleeping again at night.

[Horsehockey]

Originally Posted by KevWind

The displayed behaviors like ( people with their noses buried in their phones) is not a measure of control (as the 1/2 empty crowd would have us believe) it is an observation of a simple logistical change in behavior.. The underlying general behavior is fundamentally the same as when people road subways and commuter trains with there noses buried in news papers,, only the logistics of the added portability of cell phones and medium have changed, not the behavior or the level of control it may have on our lives .... We ourselves dictate how much control tech has or does not have in our lives, not the other way around

I think it’s entirely possible that this underestimates the damage done to the fundamentals of an organized society. The Internet, personal computers, and cell phones are in the process of revolutionizing our society including the revolution in “working from home.” WFH was thought to be a temporary pandemic phenomenon. Temporary. It’s not. That humans can (and will) isolate themselves cannot, in my opinion, serve to keep humanity up to speed on dealing with the peculiarities of their fellow humans. I think this is already evident in the obvious decline in civility. And decline like that cannot be good for the future.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Horsehockey

I think it’s entirely possible that this underestimates the damage done to the fundamentals of an organized society. The Internet, personal computers, and cell phones are in the process of revolutionizing our society including the revolution in “working from home.” WFH was thought to be a temporary pandemic phenomenon. Temporary. It’s not. That humans can (and will) isolate themselves cannot, in my opinion, serve to keep humanity up to speed on dealing with the peculiarities of their fellow humans. I think this is already evident in the obvious decline in civility. And decline like that cannot be good for the future.

Well anything is possible but "the damage done to the fundamentals of an organized society", is an unsubstantiated assumption of premise based on a totally subjective perspective,, which is predicated on the notion that more WFH (which has and will, no doubt increase) and the inevitable change in behavior patterns ---will cause people to "isolate" themselves in a fashion that will prove to be negative to society ..

I think it is also pure speculation that the lessening in the amount of time workers spend having to deal with frivolous and often socially negative office politics (which can foul work environments and reduce productivity) ,,, is a bad thing.

The reality is, civility has always been a facade of society not an inherent aspect. (the notion of the good old days is a myth)
I suggest any increase of incivility, is much more related to #1 a reflection of the proportional population increase and more people = more rude people,, or the "Rats in cage syndrome". #2 Is more a factor of people being tightly clustered, than being isolated.

#3 And a far far more concerning than any increase in isolation do to tech,, and any increase in incivility is ,, the rise in acceptance of intolerance , much of it stemming from the fear based rhetoric prevalent in the in large in person gatherings , where the speaker spews bigoted diatribes of blame on others, and vomits fact-less nonsense , and the mindless sheeple audience, laps it up . If you want to be concerned about "damage to the fundamentals of society " , and the future of our society,, you might focus your attention there.

[hubcapsc]

The notion of the good old days is a myth

People say that. Has your mama waited on the corner for the bus
in Silver Springs Maryland with an armload of groceries after dark recently?

-Mike

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

The notion of the good old days is a myth

People say that. Has your mama waited on the corner for the bus
in Silver Springs Maryland with an armload of groceries after dark recently?

-Mike

Thank you. My mother in her 90s remind or teaches us how much more was horrible beyond waiting for the bus with groceries.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

The notion of the good old days is a myth

People say that. Has your mama waited on the corner for the bus
in Silver Springs Maryland with an armload of groceries after dark recently?

-Mike

Let me rephrase --- One of the few good things about "the good old" days was less people .. The cancerous explosion of population is certainly a negative aspect of the modern world I think some would like to blame technology for what is actually rats in a cage syndrome . But as far as the rose colored notion about "the good old days " I would think we can all agree the institutional acceptance of bigotry, racism, and sexism of the past, is far better left buried in the past.
Or as the songwriter Darrel Scott put it "The Good old days are just good and gone"

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Let me rephrase --- One of the few good things about "the good old" days was less people .. The cancerous explosion of population is certainly a negative aspect of the modern world I think some would like to blame technology for what is actually rats in a cage syndrome . But as far as the rose colored notion about "the good old days " I would think we can all agree the institutional acceptance of bigotry, racism, and sexism of the past, is far better left buried in the past.
Or as the songwriter Darrel Scott put it "The Good old days are just good and gone"

We now face a population collapse, actually. A future in which a small group of young people will be struggling to take care of a huge group of old people and their monstrous debt.

But overall I think things are getting both better and worse at the same time. As this thread illustrates.

[ewalling]

I was recently 'doing' a story by Alice Walker called 'Everyday Use' with one class. There is a scene in which a dynamic but self-obsessed daughter returns to the simple home where her mother and sister still live. Her first impulse is to take loads of photographs of the home with various members of the family, and this scene has traditionally been seen as this daughter attempting to memorialize the heritage of African American life rather than living it. She wants to experience this heritage not by being in it but by hanging facsimiles of it on walls so that she and her fancy friends can reminisce and pass a few minutes chatting about the past between bites of canapes and sips of Chardonnay.

It occurred to me that the students did not see it like that. They are aged 18-30, and they take photographs of pretty much everything. Or if they don't take photographs, they are perpetually 'sharing' other images, messages, thoughts, you name it. If they were somewhere or did something, the experience will inevitably be sent to hundreds of people, some of whom they may never even have met.

For those that say cell phone and computer tech is 'just like the phone and the TV used to be,' I would say no, it is not. What is happening now is unprecedented in its extremity, and I think the effects of it have barely been considered in all the gung-ho zeal for the next gadget fix. Almost every aspect of people's lives is being filtered through a virtual lens. We no longer have 'the experience'; we have 'the experience reimagined through tech,' and little by little, the experience itself is becoming a pale shadow of what it could be without being re-shaped, enhanced, and celebrated among people far away from the reality of the experience itself. I wonder how many people under the age of 50 can enjoy a vacation or a concert or a party if they don't have some online portal for validating the experience before a congested universe of virtual 'friends.'

We are becoming something significantly different, I think. That may be good or bad or neither good nor bad. We are shifting our whole perception of what it means to live and experience the world, and that shift is moving in the direction of vast digital exposure. Our work, our daily tasks, our leisure have now all been technologically converted. From attending training courses to parking cars to seeing the Taj Mahal - almost none of it can now be done satisfactorily without going online. Wow.

[Joe Beamish]

^ Yes. I also think that with ubiquitous communications there is no way to escape, to become out of touch or to disappear. Most of the plot lines of novels and movies up to this point, which so often depend on misunderstandings (accidental, or on purpose as with crime stories) coming from losing communication, would not be believable with today’s technology.

It is indeed a different world.

[DavidE]

People who sell guitars and cases that stink from smoke and don't disclose it. And then deny it when it's painfully obvious.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by ewalling

I was recently 'doing' a story by Alice Walker called 'Everyday Use' with one class. There is a scene in which a dynamic but self-obsessed daughter returns to the simple home where her mother and sister still live. Her first impulse is to take loads of photographs of the home with various members of the family, and this scene has traditionally been seen as this daughter attempting to memorialize the heritage of African American life rather than living it. She wants to experience this heritage not by being in it but by hanging facsimiles of it on walls so that she and her fancy friends can reminisce and pass a few minutes chatting about the past between bites of canapes and sips of Chardonnay.

It occurred to me that the students did not see it like that. They are aged 18-30, and they take photographs of pretty much everything. Or if they don't take photographs, they are perpetually 'sharing' other images, messages, thoughts, you name it. If they were somewhere or did something, the experience will inevitably be sent to hundreds of people, some of whom they may never even have met.

For those that say cell phone and computer tech is 'just like the phone and the TV used to be,' I would say no, it is not. What is happening now is unprecedented in its extremity, and I think the effects of it have barely been considered in all the gung-ho zeal for the next gadget fix. Almost every aspect of people's lives is being filtered through a virtual lens. We no longer have 'the experience'; we have 'the experience reimagined through tech,' and little by little, the experience itself is becoming a pale shadow of what it could be without being re-shaped, enhanced, and celebrated among people far away from the reality of the experience itself. I wonder how many people under the age of 50 can enjoy a vacation or a concert or a party if they don't have some online portal for validating the experience before a congested universe of virtual 'friends.'

We are becoming something significantly different, I think. That may be good or bad or neither good nor bad. We are shifting our whole perception of what it means to live and experience the world, and that shift is moving in the direction of vast digital exposure. Our work, our daily tasks, our leisure have now all been technologically converted. From attending training courses to parking cars to seeing the Taj Mahal - almost none of it can now be done satisfactorily without going online. Wow.

One of my pet peeves is when people strawman a differing view
I doubt anyone and definitely not me says "cell phones and computers are just like analog phones and TV " that is a strawman fallacy
What I said was the said was the behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper .
For example




And I remember when I got my first camera in the early 70's (pre cell phone and computer age) my best friend pondered if wanting to photograph the experience somehow diminished the experience ??

And then there are the 10'000 year old cave paintings of "the hunt" --just saying'

If you believe that by simply snapping this photo of a 9-10 ft female Reef Shark stopping 6 ft in front of me !!!!-- is somehow avoiding living the experience, or diminishing the experience - you are sadly mistaken-- just saying' (yes poor grammar and all )

[hubcapsc]

What I said was the said was the behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper .

They won't be reading the paper when the aliens start vaporizing
skyscrapers. They'll be watching it through their devices

-Mike

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by KevWind

One of my pet peeves is when people strawman a differing view
I doubt anyone and definitely not me says "cell phones and computers are just like analog phones and TV " that is a strawman fallacy
What I said was the said was the behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper .
For example




And I remember when I got my first camera in the early 70's (pre cell phone and computer age) my best friend pondered if wanting to photograph the experience somehow diminished the experience ??

And then there are the 10'000 year old cave paintings of "the hunt" --just saying'

If you believe that by simply snapping this photo of a 9-10 ft female Reef Shark stopping 6 ft in front of me !!!!-- is somehow avoiding living the experience, or diminishing the experience - you are sadly mistaken-- just saying' (yes poor grammar and all )

Yes. Work used to require I do a significant amount of airline flying and trips in bigger cities using transit systems and hotel stays. Noses would be aimed at newspapers, notebooks, text books, novels, old school and older laptop computers. Things are not much different unless I missed our having a part of the country where they still employ lectors and lamplighters.

[Horsehockey]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Case in point.

The brewery biergarten blocks from home has live music 4 days a week and welcomes kids with adults and dogs. It is an amazing place of happiness with all sorts of people mixing. Last night I volunteered at a community event there and joked with the owner how the everyone needs that scene for happiness. He responded to make sure they know dogs are not allowed on Fridays because of how crowded it gets.

“Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by KevWind

One of my pet peeves is when people strawman a differing view
I doubt anyone and definitely not me says "cell phones and computers are just like analog phones and TV " that is a strawman fallacy
What I said was the said was the behavior of having ones nose buried in a cell phone is not that much different than having it buried in a news paper .
For example




And I remember when I got my first camera in the early 70's (pre cell phone and computer age) my best friend pondered if wanting to photograph the experience somehow diminished the experience ??

And then there are the 10'000 year old cave paintings of "the hunt" --just saying'

If you believe that by simply snapping this photo of a 9-10 ft female Reef Shark stopping 6 ft in front of me !!!!-- is somehow avoiding living the experience, or diminishing the experience - you are sadly mistaken-- just saying' (yes poor grammar and all )

I lived in NYC for decades. Of course everyone on the subway and other commuter transportation would read newspapers, books and magazines as a rule. And also while eating lunch out alone.

And that’s about it.

The use of devices is radically different in both kind and degree. Not only do people bury their noses in their devices while commuting, but also while having dinner with other people in their own family. And while walking down the street.

In fact, the devices are as ubiquitous as the noses we stick in them. And used just as often.

This is not necessarily 100% a bad thing. But to ignore it is silly.