How important is Hide Glue?

[phcorrigan]

Does anyone here have experience with liquid hide glue like Titebond Liquid Hide Glue?

[pmichael]

Originally Posted by gmel555

I think there's a general agreement among luthiers who use it that "hide glue", "fish", etc. are all organic protein glues with very similar properties, enough to lump them all under the heading "Protein Glues", virtually interchangeable as it relates to guitar building. If any luthiers on the AGF disagree with this, I will respectfully stand corrected.

This is my understanding as well, and further that the term 'hot hide glue' is often used when in fact the glue in use is not derived from hides. So it becomes less about the glue and more about language. Hot hide glue may be used to refer to hide-derived glue or it may be used to refer to a group of animal derived glues that share physical properties so closely that making the distinction loses importance when talking about application. Thus it is that sometimes hot hide glue is actually fish glue.

[Simon Fay]

As Alan mentioned, there are no downsides to the glue and it doesn't cold creep and makes repairs easier. It is a bit more difficult to prepare and use -- not much open time meaning you have to get the pieces put together and clamped very quickly.

I use it for gluing together a number of components on my guitars (the bracing and bridge, for example). I also do it for marketing purposes - for some reason it is perceived as "high end". However, I don't believe there is a tonal advantage and sincerely believe that my guitars would sound exactly the same if I was using Titebond instead.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

Does anyone here have experience with liquid hide glue like Titebond Liquid Hide Glue?

Yes. I've used Titebond to close up surface cracks, reclamp seams, etc. Haven't done a full build or anything like that with it. Nice to have a longer working time and not use a heated glue pot.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

Does anyone here have experience with liquid hide glue like Titebond Liquid Hide Glue?

I have used two different pre-prepared liquid hide glues. Many years ago, I used Titebond Liquid Hide Glue on several projects over several years. Each project used a different bottle. 100% of what I glued with it came apart as soon as the summer temperatures and humidities hit. Others around the same time had similar issues. Some people did not. I haven't used Titebond's version since then. In speaking with a Franklin area representative, he stated that their liquid hide glue had recently been reformulated. I have not tried it and have no desire to do so.

The second brand that I have used is Old Brown Glue. I have found it to work well and have had no failures with it.

If you are looking for a pre-prepared animal-based glue, I've found fish glue works well and has a much longer open/working time than hide glues.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by pmichael

...the term 'hot hide glue' is often used when in fact the glue in use is not derived from hides. So it becomes less about the glue and more about language. Hot hide glue may be used to refer to hide-derived glue or it may be used to refer to a group of animal derived glues that share physical properties so closely that making the distinction loses importance when talking about application. Thus it is that sometimes hot hide glue is actually fish glue.

Hot hide glue is something very specific. It is not like any other glue in its preparation and application. It is prepared by heating a specific proportion of granules in water. The granules are sold in several "Bloom strengths" each of which provides a different strength for different applications. The glue is then applied while hot and gels almost immediately, as it cools, giving a very short open or working time, not more than a few minutes. If the glue gels prior to mating and clamping the components, the joint strength will be compromised. In practical use, many guitar makers heat the components to be glued prior to applying the glue: doing so can provide a few minutes more of open time.

Pre-prepared liquid hide glue, as the name implies, comes in a bottle ready to use. No mixing or dissolving of granules is required, nor is the glue applied hot. It is not sold in varying Bloom strengths. It has a longer open time than hot hide glue, as long as about 10 minutes.

Fish glue comes in a bottle ready to use. No mixing, dissolving or heating is required. It has an open time of about 20 minutes or so.

While the end result might be similar, the glues are not the same in preparation or application. There should be no confusion between hot hide glue and other animal-based "protein" glues. I know of no one who uses the term "hot hide glue" to mean anything other than granules dissolved in water, heated, and applied hot.

[gmel555]

I don't think this article has been posted yet. Written by Dana Bourgeois...I take his intent is to be informative, not meant to be conclusive.

https://bourgeoisguitars.net/wp-cont...G_Mar_Guru.pdf