Any tips for transposing?

[TBman]

I have Glenn Weiser's Celtic Guitar book/cd (just ordered a couple more of his books also). Many of the tunes in Glenn's book are in standard and I'd like to transpose a short one into CGCGCD or DADGAD and I wondering if anyone uses software (like GuitarPro) to do it automatically (and have to fix the notes that get dropped) or do you just move everything down manually in the transcription software note by note.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have Glenn Weiser's Celtic Guitar book/cd (just ordered a couple more of his books also). Many of the tunes in Glenn's book are in standard and I'd like to transpose a short one into CGCGCD or DADGAD and I wondering if anyone uses software (like GuitarPro) to do it automatically (and have to fix the notes that get dropped) or do you just move everything down manually in the transcription software note by note.

There are certainly some tab programs that can sort of help. I don't know about GuitarPro, I've never used it, but Sibelius would do it, you just change the staff to DADGAD, etc, and the notes move. But the program's not going to be very smart - basically, it will just move every note on the 1st, 2nd, and 6th strings up 2 frets, which may or may not be what it would take to move a tune from standard to DADGAD - that is, technically, the notes would be right, but you might not even be able to finger them. Moving a tune from one tuning to another is basically a process that takes human intervention - not quite "arranging", but sort of "re-arranging". But certainly entering the notes into any tab program should let you manipulate them somewhat easily. I'd just try to work it out in my head, tho, using Glenn's standard notation as the guide.

[rick-slo]

You will need to rearrange it on your own.

[JonPR]

Quickest - and safest - to do it by hand, even with software that could do it for you. As Doug says, even an advanced program like Sibelius is dumb when choosing fingerings: it takes no account of playability when copying notation to tab.

You have to play it through note by note in the new tuning to see what works, what needs to be moved - and whether you might want to change the key. (Eg, a tune in C or E in EADGBE, might work well in D in DADGAD.)

I'd imagine that some tunes arranged specifically for EADGBE are just not going to work in other tunings - not without substantial re-arrangement (beyond just moving frets up or down).

[TBman]

Ok, thanks. I'll make up a translation table and do it manually.

I also have to figure out what it is exactly that I want to do. I could do a table that just assigns the standard tuning notes to what ever tuning I choose, but that might not be the best key for the new tuning. Trial and error .

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

Ok, thanks. I'll make up a translation table and do it manually.

I also have to figure out what it is exactly that I want to do. I could do a table that just assigns the standard tuning notes to what ever tuning I choose, but that might not be the best key for the new tuning. Trial and error .

Yes, there are two separate concepts here: transposing and changing tunings. You can do either one or both, and both get you into similar issues. Certainly things will work in one key and not another on the guitar - something as simple as hammering on between two notes may have to change if you just change keys. With alternate tunings, strings may change, plus the biggest reason to change to another tuning may be to take advantage of something unique about that tuning - not just playing the same notes you would in any tuning.

As far as transposing, you can certainly make a table, but it's not hard to do in your head if you think in terms of scale degrees. Chords, for example, think I, IV, V not C,F,G. once you do that, you can easily map the I, IV, V in any key to another. Melody notes are the same. Instead of thinking of playing an A in the key of C, think of that note as the 6th note of the scale. Then it's easy to move to any other key: 6th of E is C#, 6th of D is B, 6th of Ab is F and so on.

I did a quick demo of what I was talking about with using a tab program, I'll post as soon as it uploads to you tube

[stanron]

It is possible, if not likely, that a tune in one tuning will not translate note for note into another. As has been said, some of the dynamics, hammer-ons, slides etc won't be possible and notes on open strings in one tuning will have to be fingered in another. It will be a good learning exercise to try but you may have to re-arrange the tune altogether.

[rick-slo]

Actually it's pretty unusual to find a book of Celtic guitar music set in standard (or dropped D) tuning. Since standard tuning is my preferred hangout I think that is pretty neat (if arrangements are well done anyway).


I think you will find those standard tuning arrangements have the chord root note pretty well tied up to the bass strings and with less modal droning than with typical Celtic tunings, i.e. a little different than the usual Celtic sound. It may not transfer well to another tuning. Nevertheless have at it and see how it goes.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Actually it's pretty unusual to find a book of Celtic guitar music set in standard (or dropped D) tuning. Since standard tuning is my preferred hangout I think that is pretty neat (if arrangements are well done anyway).

Most of Glenn's (rather extensive) books on celtic music are in standard tuning. Sometimes he uses drop D. He's a bit of a scholar on trad music. His arrangements tend to be straight-forward, but all very well done.

[Doug Young]

Here you go Barry, here's a demo of what I was trying to describe earlier. This is just a tool - maybe useful, maybe not. In many cases, it's easier just to work out your own arrangement in the key/tuning you want, but this is a tool that can be used and it sort of "works", except when it doesn't :-)

I have no idea how GuitarPro works, but it can probably do something like this, tho the toolset is probably totally different.

Sorry, I'm blathering a bit here, just did this quick on the fly, so maybe a few confusing terminology choices, but hopefully clear enough...

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Here you go Barry, here's a demo of what I was trying to describe earlier. This is just a tool - maybe useful, maybe not. In many cases, it's easier just to work out your own arrangement in the key/tuning you want, but this is a tool that can be used and it sort of "works", except when it doesn't :-)

I have no idea how GuitarPro works, but it can probably do something like this, tho the toolset is probably totally different.

Sorry, I'm blathering a bit here, just did this quick on the fly, so maybe a few confusing terminology choices, but hopefully clear enough...

Thanks Doug, I'm watching this now.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Here you go Barry, here's a demo of what I was trying to describe earlier. This is just a tool - maybe useful, maybe not. In many cases, it's easier just to work out your own arrangement in the key/tuning you want, but this is a tool that can be used and it sort of "works", except when it doesn't :-)

I have no idea how GuitarPro works, but it can probably do something like this, tho the toolset is probably totally different.

Sorry, I'm blathering a bit here, just did this quick on the fly, so maybe a few confusing terminology choices, but hopefully clear enough...

Nicely done - exactly the kind of process I'd go through. (I also have Sibelius, but only the cheap First version... I need to use alternate tuning templates from older versions...)

I.e., you're maximising the advantages of the alternative tuning (open strings), while keeping the original melodic material and making the whole piece as playable as possible.
Natural it tends to require changing the original key, but that's no problem for an instrumental tune.

Can I ask what you used to make the video?

[TBman]

Guitarpro is a little clunky for manual transposing, in version 6, can't drag a note position. You can however right click on the note and drop it down a string or one semitone up or down.

Last night I transposed Glenn's arrangement of The Southwind from standard to cgdgcd. The only reason why I chose that tuning is because my Avalon is currently tuned that way I'm going to test it out on the guitar tonight and tweak it.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Can I ask what you used to make the video?

I just used Quicktime on my Mac. It has a screen recorder that lets you record the full screen or sweep out any part of it.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I just used Quicktime on my Mac. It has a screen recorder that lets you record the full screen or sweep out any part of it.

Ah, I'm on PC. I need to download something. (Supposedly you can do it on Windows 10 through the Xbox game bar - I just discovered - but it doesn't work for me: it asks me to sign in for live gaming, which is crazy... I guess my video card might be the wrong kind too.)

I assume Quicktime records your voice too - you have a mic?