Jazz Losing Ground in the U.S.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by StuartDay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XJ_s5IsQc

This band is just one of the many I've come across over the years who are doing great things

Wow, thanks for that! Awesome tune and arrangement...and performance! Wow...monster rhythm section!

Anyone care to guess the meter? I couldn't figure it out.

Sorry to stray off topic.

[lazybones at 50]

thank god for that...awful stuff

[EoE]

really liked the drummer

[tdq]

Every song on That Snarky Puppy session is available on youtube. I think it's absolutely awesome but I can understand people not liking it (my wife, for example...). If you like that you should also check out Jaga Jassist with the Britten Sinfonia. If not, then probably not....
I think there is a lot of great music out there, which I would call jazz, but the boundaries are even broader now than they have been for ages. Snarky Puppy and Ella Fitzgerald are both jazz, but they really shouldn't be put in the same basket at all.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by EoE

authentic . is a poor term . at its conception experimentation was what jazz was all about fusing styles that is jazz.. if you only like one era then you really do not like jazz and do not understand jazz.

Jazz obviously has many sub-genres, and for one to like jazz one doesn't have to like them all.

But I agree that "authentic" may be a poor term.

Originally Posted by tdq

Snarky Puppy and Ella Fitzgerald are both jazz, but they really shouldn't be put in the same basket at all.

Yeah. That's the point I was trying to get at.

I like the Ella basket, but don't fancy as much the Snarky basket

[EoE]

Ella, snarky and miles are in the same basket just at different points on the journey .. Miles Davis spanned a large part of that journey. if you like only one part of that journey great .. but still you do not get , understand or even like jazz ....really there are no different types of jazz. some listeners have to categorize it because they just have to do that with music.. but jazz by its nature defies that and always has. they tried to pin Miles down to categorizing styles he was pioneering he just said basically the he was just playing music. and refused to let his new work be labeled. They did not get Miles because they did not get jazz.

[StuartDay]

I think m in some ways you ger generations are more jazz than ever...in that they eschew traditional genre labels. Genres have become basically obsolete except for people who need them to create articles like the one posted.

But i don't really dig the direction this thread is headed. I didn't post the snarky video to say "this is jazz". I posted it to demonstrate that jazz (in a lot of forms) is alive and well in the hands of young people and declining record sales don't really say give an accurate depiction of what's happening in music.

I'll leave you with this: in an interview a few years back Quincy jones was asked "do you think jazz needs to adjust itself to the times?" And Quincy replied "every jazz record you've ever heard is as if it was recorded tomorrow, not yesterday. Jazz is the times"

Then he was asked "so you don't think jazz needs saving?" And he replied "saving? Get outta here man, are you kidding? You should hear the kids in South Korea and Russia and Germany and Stockholm and Hungary...you got to be kidding, jazz is all over the world baby"

[cmajor9]

Originally Posted by Livingston

Anyone care to guess the meter? I couldn't figure it out.

Its in 5. The horn lines are written to obscure the meter, but its pretty easy to hear in the guitar solo sections, or when the horns are playing their quick runs.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by EoE

Ella, snarky and miles are in the same basket just at different points on the journey .. Miles Davis spanned a large part of that journey. if you like only one part of that journey great .. but still you do not get , understand or even like jazz ....really there are no different types of jazz. some listeners have to categorize it because they just have to do that with music.. but jazz by its nature defies that and always has. they tried to pin Miles down to categorizing styles he was pioneering he just said basically the he was just playing music. and refused to let his new work be labeled. They did not get Miles because they did not get jazz.

As they say in Italy, "estrarre il tappo.”

[fazool]

The graph in that linked article shows a very positive trend about music, in general: every other genre is growing - which is a good economic indicator for the industry.

Too bad Rap is on this side of the line IMO, but other than that a good overall trend.

Jazz will never "go away" but like classical, swing, big band, rockabilly etcetera, it will become a historically important genre, appreciated more for its contribution than its content.

[posternutbag]

One thing I find kind of funny is something my jazz guitar teacher said, "There are more people who want to play jazz than listen to it." I am certain he did not originate the phrase, but there is some truth to that. I have seen similar things with bluegrass and blues. In both of those genres, a large percentage of the fan base are musicians.

The difference is, it is easy to organize a bluegrass jam or a blues jam. It is much harder organize a Jazz jam. The result is, I don't think Jazz can evolve into a participatory music the way bluegrass and blues have, which is sad, at least to me.

Of course, if anyone has successfully organized a "Jazz Jam" or has experience with one, please let me know. I would love to start one. Someone tried to start a Swing band on campus (we have a huge Swing Dance Club that meets regularly) but it never got off the ground.

[EoE]

The music industry's continued shift toward live performances has contributed significantly to the Concert and Event Promotion industry over the past five years. With physical and digital record sales in continual decline, live musical performance has become a major revenue earner for both musicians and event promoters. In the coming years, overall disposable income levels have heavily influenced consumers' readiness and ability to attend events. Events are an affordable luxury compared with vacations, and due to Americans' persistent demand for live entertainment, this industry is expected to thrive as consumers' disposable incomes continue to grow... that was According to MISWORLD.. even mp 3 sells are on the way down with streaming becoming the most popular way to listen to music. YOU can not judge the music industry by sells of mp3 , cd or records anymore.. those graphs mean absolutely nothing. look at live music trends if you want to understand the music industry.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by EoE

The music industry's continued shift toward live performances has contributed significantly to the Concert and Event Promotion industry over the past five years. With physical and digital record sales in continual decline, live musical performance has become a major revenue earner for both musicians and event promoters. In the coming years, overall disposable income levels have heavily influenced consumers' readiness and ability to attend events. Events are an affordable luxury compared with vacations, and due to Americans' persistent demand for live entertainment, this industry is expected to thrive as consumers' disposable incomes continue to grow... that was According to MISWORLD.. even mp 3 sells are on the way down with streaming becoming the most popular way to listen to music. YOU can not judge the music industry by sells of mp3 , cd or records anymore.. those graphs mean absolutely nothing. look at live music trends if you want to understand the music industry.

Wait. The music industry's business model is predicated on a growth in disposable income? No wonder they are in trouble.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by EoE

The music industry's continued shift toward live performances has contributed significantly to the Concert and Event Promotion industry over the past five years. With physical and digital record sales in continual decline, live musical performance has become a major revenue earner for both musicians and event promoters. In the coming years, overall disposable income levels have heavily influenced consumers' readiness and ability to attend events. Events are an affordable luxury compared with vacations, and due to Americans' persistent demand for live entertainment, this industry is expected to thrive as consumers' disposable incomes continue to grow... that was According to MISWORLD.. even mp 3 sells are on the way down with streaming becoming the most popular way to listen to music. YOU can not judge the music industry by sells of mp3 , cd or records anymore.. those graphs mean absolutely nothing. look at live music trends if you want to understand the music industry.

I am skeptical about this argument.

From physical media (tape/vinyl/cd/etc) record sales evolved into digital fie sales (mp3/itunes/etc) now streaming is the peak delivery vehicle(Youtube/pandora/spotify/etc).

However, those give very limited access and control over your music (much like FM radio did). In order to listen to what you want when you want, you have to pay a streaming service, which is just a different way to pay the industry for music.

Event sales have gone up because events have seen a shockingly huge increase in ticket prices. According to usinflationcalulator.com a $30 ticket from 1980 would almost triple to $85. That's laughable as concert tickets for comparable headline acts (in the same arena with comparable seats) are now $300-$600.

This is due to a shift in the market. There are not *more* concerts. In fact, I think prorated for increased number of acts, there are fewer concerts and live events but they cost 20X as much.

The recording industry realizes they losing a revenue stream from record sales and driving profitability through live events.

They lose money on record sales so they let the Internet live streams generate "buzz" then they sell concert tickets for 20X price increase.

[kkfan]

Originally Posted by StuartDay

But my main point is simply that I don't think the article posted here is much to worry about. Jazz is alive and I think it's doing relatively well when you look at how many cool jazz based groups are out there in the under 40 population.

I hear ya.