This guy says my tone sucks.

[knuckle]

Originally Posted by LiFeStArTs@40

Seriously? You sound as good as you will on Youtube anyways. Most people will view that through mediocre computer speakers and such like I just did. You sounded fine.

Two things...

One, buy a microphone and an audio interface OR buy a Zoom H2 and use it as the input mic on your video recorder. That will up your sonic quality a lot.

Two, play with your mixing between guitar and vocals. I think there's a better balance to be had.

All that said, your video showcased your music very well and I'd never question its quality as far as the recording goes... it's fine.

So I would need a video recorder with a mic input I assume for that?

[rockinrebel]

Originally Posted by knuckle

I don't know what to think of this. I believe this guy might be right, from another forum I post on. Some of you have seen my videos. I record with an ipod *rolls eyes*

"It seems like you're doing everything you can to get bad recorded tone. It sounds like you've recorded it in one great big tunnel. The tone is distant, echoed, thin and amateurish. Your recorded tone sounded bad a year ago, and it still sounds bad. The other people here won't tell you that, they'll be dishonest with you because they don't want to hurt your widdle feelings, they'll criticize my view because they don't like me, they'll do everything except tell you the TRUTH. The truth is your recorded tone sux.

When recorded tone sux, people will pay a LOT less attention to the song, the singing and the playing.

You need serious help in how to record an acoustic guitar and voice. Get that help, and LISTEN to the advice. Otherwise your recorded sound will not reach a reasonable, listenable quality.

Ok, now it's over to everyone else, who'll tell you that I'm just an and that you sound GREAT, and how you're improving every week, and stardom is just around the corner for you"


So I tend to think it's difficult to get a good recorded tone with a video capturing device. It seems like it's either record audio only and forget the video or hire a production company to get a good quality video / audio.

I'm all ears if anybody has any advice. My goal is to get the music seen and heard, but according to this guy, I'm doing myself a disservice by releasing anything on the internet as the tone sucks. My goal with posting videos has always been to get some advice on whether the tune sucks or not. I'm primarily focused on playing live, till the tunes get real solid, then go into a studio and have someone else do it. Am I doing myself a dis-service by releasing videos with lackluster tone?

Nice guy.
A true gentleman.

[HAMFIST]

I think we have two separate issues here. First of all, the guy in question is a jerk. Or at least he is behaving as one. There is a difference between offering constructive and helpful ideas and trying to make someone feel small and denegrating them.

The other issue is that there is a broad continuum of audio quality. You can invest more time and money into production and get better and better results. Depends on your goal and what you want your stuff to sound like.

I think your tone is pretty good. The playing is real solid. You seem to have your own vocal approach that is unique and well controlled. So if I were to say anything, I would offer suggestions for running a line-in to the camera. There are some lower cost cameras now that have external mic access which means they can also accept a line in from a board. Another option is to capture audio separately via a mixing board directly onto a PC, and marry the audio and video in a tool like Sony VEGAS.

What kind of mic are you using? There ARE now stero mics designed specifically for the iPod. Coming up with a better original signal may be the fastest way to make incremental improvements. There are a lot of options.

It all depends on how polished you want to be. I WILL say your playing and singing are at that level where I would not feel guilty about investing a bit more in production. You've got a lot of skills and some good stuff going on. If you want to add more polish, I can connect you with a few guys who can really be helpful. Without being jerks.

[knuckle]

Thanks, I was checking out that mikey mic for the ipod. I don't know much about ipods, I'm wondering if I plug that in does the video recorder on the ipod know to use that rather than the internal mic?

[geokie8]

Reading the guy's comments, I expected to find a much worse recording than I actually did. It sounds like many of the You Tube covers that I dial up.

Having said that, I do have some observations (in no particular order):

1) You're a much better player than the average You Tube cover. That higher quality of playing creates in me a subconscious demand for a higher quality of everything, including the audio experience.

2) You have a wide array of equipment, multiple guitars, nice looking amps, etc. Similar to point #1, this all creates the expectations for a better audio experience. Why spend so much time and money and then stop right at the point that directly affects the audience? This goes double (actually quadruple) given the fact that your website looks so sophisticated and technically pleasing. Why did you stop caring about the technical end when you got to the music?

3) There does seem to be a kind of tunnel, or ringing, or something that may or may not be able to be dialed down/out with your current equipment. The audio on a typical camcorder seems to be the weak link on most of these projects. Getting a good set of technical ears to help you would be worth the effort.

4) Whereas the overall sound would better be described as "audio," your voice would better be described as "tone." You have a nice, deep voice, but bass can become muddy if not directly addressed. A mic change for your vocal range might be in order, or perhaps just a little tweaking of the vocals that would help clear up your vocal tone. (The tunnel or reverb sound that is affecting the overall sound is undoubtedly contributing to the vocal muddiness).

You asked for honesty and this is the best I can give you. If you want people to load up one of your songs, you don't need to do anything. If you want them to load up 5 or 6, and then pay for a CD, you'll improve the audio experience.

Good luck!

geokie8

[HAMFIST]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Thanks, I was checking out that mikey mic for the ipod. I don't know much about ipods, I'm wondering if I plug that in does the video recorder on the ipod know to use that rather than the internal mic?

Yeah -- it should pretty much be able to tell that there is an external mic and reference that audio source. There are also stereo mics that terminate in a micro plug that ought to work just as well.

IMHO, just using a decent mic or two and going without amplification may actually work better. Seems like you are getting a lot of feedback here. A number of folks may be willing to consult with you a bit off the thread. It's all good, man.

Main thing is ... you are a very musical and compelling player/singer. There are complete wankers out there who use more toys and production tricks than you are using here.

[knuckle]

Originally Posted by HAMFIST

Yeah -- it should pretty much be able to tell that there is an external mic and reference that audio source. There are also stereo mics that terminate in a micro plug that ought to work just as well.

IMHO, just using a decent mic or two and going without amplification may actually work better. Seems like you are getting a lot of feedback here. A number of folks may be willing to consult with you a bit off the thread. It's all good, man.

Main thing is ... you are a very musical and compelling player/singer. There are complete wankers out there who use more toys and production tricks than you are using here.

LOL @ the Wankers comment. Thanks for the compliment and suggestions. One of the issues I have is that I can't hear what I'm doing. I have no extra set of ears. The reverb on the vocals might be up to high causing the feedback. I actually turned the volume way down on the amps too for this one. I think the recording space is just not optimal, It was the same thing 2 years ago with different equipment. I think I need some carpet on the floor or something too, or something on the walls perhaps as well as a better recording device or an external mic for the ipod.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by knuckle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBWt...el_video_title

Yeah, this one is bad in a number of ways. On the other hand you picked the worst one as an example. The others on your website are reasonable sounding. If your other recordings for some reason sound as bad when on youtube then try to remedy that.

[noledog]

Hey Knuckle,
I agree that the tone of your guitar is fine. Keeping in mind that you are just tryin' to just put your art out there and having fun, you may want to tweak the audio levels/eq or use a better device. I think maybe the natural acoustics of the room is a main contributer to the "tunnel" reverb effect. As you know in my little YouTube show I simply use a Sony Vaio laptop. I have a nice condenser mic and Protools I could have used, however I chose the former for this project because I wanted to do an off the cuff, raw, live kinda thing. I live in an old home with real old wooden floors (1945) and the natural acoustics in my livingroom are lovely & lend favorably to the pure natural sound/tone of my guitars. Thats what I wanted to capture, not that a better device could still do that, but I was trying to keep it simple. Now the laptop has a decent mike and I definitly had to tweak the levels/eq as much as the program allows and I still may be able to improve it, however I did have friends preview it to double check audio as to not be too hot/overdriven or to soft where you have to crank the audio to max and still can't hear it very well. I left it so the listener has room to go up or down in volume.
It does ones music an injustice if the levels are too extreme, the device is of poor quality, or the natural acoustics of the environment are conducive to undesirable colorings to your instrument.
Knuckle you are an artist with a wonderful gift both lyrically and musically. An honest friend will graciously advise you in helping you to tweak your recordings to where you want them. This fellow on the other forum was not.
So you may 1.)try recording in a different room, 2.)tweak the audio device you are using and if the environmental acoustics of the other room improve the audio but still isn't satisfactory, invest in a better suited audio device.
Don't be discouraged friend, I've listened to your tunes, and your a gifted songwriter and many here obviously support you and are ready to help.
noledog
PS. Stamper Mike has a wonderful recording sound in his studio, it is very natural and pure IMHO
he may be one you may consult...

[knuckle]

For the comment before noledog. See, I can't figure this out. I thought this one sounded better than the others

Who knows.


noledog, thank you for your compliments. There's some good feedback and suggestions in this thread, I appreciate it.

[arie]

knuckle, internet opinions as they are i think that your guitar playing is quite good and your sound is fine. recorded "tone" is what it is and if you feel a need to improve then it's just a matter of a tech upgrade.

what i feel could use some attention though is that your voice seems to have a narrow range. while this is fine and good, paring it better with your guitar might be an area for some investigation. it's one reason i don't bother to sing myself. perhaps a vocal coach could help you to find areas to explore within your range to better accentuate your current playing and chosen tunings.

all in all i think you are doing fine and at least you are getting it out there which is more than a lot of people do.

[Glennwillow]

Hi Knuckle,

I listened to your video; as others have noted, it's not out of line with the quality of most You Tube recordings. Your antagonist from the other forum is being overly harsh and unfair.

I do agree, though, that if you want to make more of an impact, you will need to find ways to bring your recorded sound quality more up to professional levels. That takes better equipment and a lot of experimentation. It really helps to get help locally from someone who has some recording experience. I would look around where you live to see if you can find anyone who can help you. With a little help, you could make some quantum, positive changes pretty rapidly.

I would keep at it, but look for ways to run mics to a separate board and then from that board into your Ipod through the external mic input. That approach, alone, could make a huge difference. Also, a little reverb goes a long way; most of us want to layer on too much.

Hang in there...

- Glenn

[edman]

I suggest going unplugged and moving the Ipod in close or backing the reverb down (or off). It seems like the camera is too far away creating additional reverb. I believe that is the "tunnel" effect everyone is talking about. In my opinion, the small internal mics on phones and cameras don't handle reverb well.

[knuckle]

Thanks, I'll do a reshoot later, no reverb, ipod closer, see what happens. I have a small studio room I built downstairs for music, it's about 12x14 and the sound seems to bounce off the walls in there. Sucks as I built the whole room with recording and playing in mind and it sonically sucks. However the room is not treated or anything with any acoustic insulation.

[enalnitram]

What does his recorded tone sound like? point us to a link of his so we can all go there and make comments?