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  #16  
Old 04-26-2008, 09:24 PM
sirflyguy2000 sirflyguy2000 is offline
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Getting awfully close to Dock territory!
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2008, 11:53 PM
banjar banjar is offline
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Originally Posted by patrickgm60 View Post
Oh, brother.
I'm not a lawyer or a busker, but I dont know what you are rolling your eyes at. The ability to stand on a public street and play music while people voluntarily tip you (or not) seems like a pretty basic freedom, that is a whole lot less free when it has to be paid for.
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
steve nm steve nm is offline
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Originally Posted by banjar View Post
The ability to stand on a public street and play music while people voluntarily tip you (or not) seems like a pretty basic freedom, that is a whole lot less free when it has to be paid for.
Aint that the truth!!!!
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  #19  
Old 04-29-2008, 11:29 AM
Tsckey Tsckey is offline
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Keep in mind that although the First Amendment protects the right of free expression, regulations restricting the time, place, and manner of such expressions have been upheld. So long as these regulations are content neutral, that is, they don’t restrict what is said, but only address matters in which the state has a legitimate interest, such as maintaining the public peace and safety, they are given a lot of deference by the courts. The safest course would be to check local ordinances before venturing out, the next would be to go ahead and play, but be very respectful and compliant if you’re hassled by the police. The last thing would be to stand your ground waiving a copy of the First Amendment – unless you have enough backing to afford to be a test case.

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  #20  
Old 04-29-2008, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbitt View Post
Or, you could hand them a copy of the 1st Amendment. Do a little research on busking (there are actually organizations devoted to it), and you will see that you have a 1st Amendment right to express your art in public places.

If you have to ask "permission", you have already given up your rights. If you expect the police or the Town Council to be the arbiters of your rights, you will have none.

Many famous people have started out by busking, and it is an accepted art form all over the world. www.dunnellononline.com
It's not the busking that's generally not permitted, it's pan-handling. I used to play the parks in Washington DC. Back then at least it was illegal to collect money. So if you want to busk - then play. If you are doing it to collect tip money, you need to check with the police department to see what their ordinances allow or not. This isn't a first ammendment question. You have a right to "express yourself" but the city sets laws and business license codes and ordinances to establish who can and where you can do business.
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  #21  
Old 04-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Giannini12 Giannini12 is offline
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Originally Posted by PastorSteve View Post
It's not the busking that's generally not permitted, it's pan-handling. I used to play the parks in Washington DC. Back then at least it was illegal to collect money. So if you want to busk - then play. If you are doing it to collect tip money, you need to check with the police department to see what their ordinances allow or not. This isn't a first ammendment question. You have to right to "express yourself" but the city sets laws and business license codes and ordinances to establish who can and where you can do business.

In other words, if I ever become a bag lady, I had better be a GIG bag lady.
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2008, 05:26 PM
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My advice?

Location...location...location...

And, shine it on, until the "Man" comes along, and tells you to move...

Some touristy areas actually welcome street musicians, because it draws people...

It will be an experience, either way...

I have a friend, who is wheelchair-bound, and plays on the street corner, near the university, most every weekend. No one bothers him, and he makes pretty good $$. Not a living, but it keeps him happy!!

Btw, Victoria, Canada is buskers paradise...
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:34 PM
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Just out of curiosity...seriously...why is it called "busking"?
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  #24  
Old 05-01-2008, 04:12 AM
Cabbitt Cabbitt is offline
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“Keep in mind that although the First Amendment protects the right of free expression, regulations restricting the time, place, and manner of such expressions have been upheld. So long as these regulations are content neutral, that is, they don’t restrict what is said, but only address matters in which the state has a legitimate interest, such as maintaining the public peace and safety, they are given a lot of deference by the courts.”



The 1st Amendment also protects: “The right of the people peaceably to assemble”.


Subsequent ‘rulings’ notwithstanding, it does not say “except in matters in which the state has a legitimate interest”. If the “State” can tell a citizen when, where and how he is ‘permitted’ to freely exercise his 1st Amendment rights, it negates the intent of the Amendment.


“The last thing would be to stand your ground waiving a copy of the First Amendment…”


It is up to the individual to decide his course of action. You can ask ‘permission’ of the authorities, pay your license fee and get your ‘vendor’s license’. They will tell you when, where, and for how long you are permitted to play. Next week, they will tell you what you cannot play.




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  #25  
Old 05-01-2008, 05:06 AM
jackweasel jackweasel is offline
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It would be my luck that after making some money at it, getting along with the law and the merchants, and drawing a crowd, the "music police" would come along and make me pay performance fees for all the songs I play.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-2008, 05:29 AM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggerphil View Post
Just out of curiosity...seriously...why is it called "busking"?
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking

"These performers have not always been called buskers. The term busking was first noted in the English language around the middle 1860s. The word busk comes from the Spanish root word buscar, meaning "to seek" – buskers are literally seeking fame and fortune.[5][6] In obsolete French it evolved to busquer for "seek, prowl" and was generally used to describe prostitutes. In Italian it evolved to buscare which meant "procure, gain" and in Italy buskers are called buscarsi or, more simply, Buskers (see loan word).
From the Renaissance to the early 1900s, busking was called minstrelsy in Europe and English-speaking lands. Before that, itinerant musicians were known by the French term troubadours. In old French the term jongleurs was also used to describe buskers. In northern France they were known as trouveres. In old German buskers were known as minnesingers and spielleute. The term busk is also used in music when a musician has to play something quickly from scratch, by ear or at sight, as in: I'll just busk it."
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  #27  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:11 AM
jwsamuel jwsamuel is offline
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Originally Posted by Cabbitt View Post
In many cases, laws restricting busking have been found to be unconstitutional.
And in many cases, they have been upheld.

Jim
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:17 AM
patrickgm60 patrickgm60 is offline
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If the “State” can tell a citizen when, where and how he is ‘permitted’ to freely exercise his 1st Amendment rights, it negates the intent of the Amendment
Such statements are simply incorrect - factually and legally. The Constitution is extremely brief in laying out the basic principles of our legal system. Decades of time, thousands of cases, and tens of thousands of volumes of writing have been devoted to expounding on what those rights are.

The famous Supreme Court example is that one cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre (if there is no fire). Public safety, property values, intellectual property rights, commerce, our nation's defense, etc. all come into play in detemining how "freely" we can exercise our rights.

You may not like having to keep your gun and ammunition in separate compartments of your car, obtaining a busking license, or voting at a particular poll location, but the fact is that these (and many, many others) are proper and legal restrictions on individual's rights.

Having set that straight, I do admit to have busked a total of 2 times in my life; neither time with any time of license or permit....
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  #29  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:02 AM
banjar banjar is offline
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Originally Posted by jwsamuel View Post
And in many cases, they have been upheld.

Jim
I think it might be more accurate to say that laws *BANNING* busking have been found unconstitutional.
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:05 AM
Cabbitt Cabbitt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickgm60 View Post
Such statements are simply incorrect - factually and legally. The Constitution is extremely brief in laying out the basic principles of our legal system. Decades of time, thousands of cases, and tens of thousands of volumes of writing have been devoted to expounding on what those rights are.

The famous Supreme Court example is that one cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre (if there is no fire). Public safety, property values, intellectual property rights, commerce, our nation's defense, etc. all come into play in detemining how "freely" we can exercise our rights.

You may not like having to keep your gun and ammunition in separate compartments of your car, obtaining a busking license, or voting at a particular poll location, but the fact is that these (and many, many others) are proper and legal restrictions on individual's rights.

Having set that straight, I do admit to have busked a total of 2 times in my life; neither time with any time of license or permit....



I said the 'intent' of the 1st Amendment. I was not alluding to the "decades" of manipulation by lawyers, which has left the original intent of the founders in shatters.
As an example: when did protection from 'unreasonable search and seizure' give way to helmeted storm troopers battering in doors? That happened here yesterday, and one of the doors the Nazis battered down was at the wrong house.






As I said before, you are free to relinquish your rights; I choose to retain mine.




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