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Old 07-05-2022, 11:25 AM
Tramsnad Tramsnad is offline
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Default Caged System - the basics to know

I was getting ready to explain the caged system to a friend when I decided to put together this video. The video covers some basics that anyone that has wondered about the caged system should find useful.

Let me know your thoughts and good luck. Forgive me for playing a telecaster lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUgpE7jKpM
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Old 07-10-2022, 07:33 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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This post generated unintended negative attention so I deleted its entire contents, and I sincerely apologize to the forum, once again.

So long,

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 07-10-2022 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 07-10-2022, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
This post generated unintended negative attention so I deleted its entire contents, and I sincerely apologize to the forum, once again.

So long,

Tony
I find your posts informative, educated and generally with the intent to add to a discussion. Sometimes stuff from our lives can filter through and other times wordings can be interpreted differently than intended. The written word can leave a lot to be desired at times. I apologize for responding in a purposely sarcastic manner to your post in this thread and possibly others. Your presence on this forum is a positive one and hopefully we can enjoy reading your posts in the future.

I'm looking forward to friendly interactions with you in the future.
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Old 07-10-2022, 12:57 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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I find your posts informative, educated and generally with the intent to add to a discussion. Sometimes stuff from our lives can filter through and other times wordings can be interpreted differently than intended. The written word can leave a lot to be desired at times. I apologize for responding in a purposely sarcastic manner to your post in this thread and possibly others. Your presence on this forum is a positive one and hopefully we can enjoy reading your posts in the future.

I'm looking forward to friendly interactions with you in the future.
Thanks Barry. I find your compositions and covers to be of high quality and have watched your growth on the guitar from the time you joined.

Unfortunately, you have followed up on some of my posts with negative interpretations that I never intended. A moderator agreed with you today. It is an odd thing for me that all through college and my engineering career, I always got very positive feedback on my written communications, but here (and not just with you) I seem to have a very difficult time communicating. I left the forum for a while on one other occasion and was planning to do that again.

Your post here took real character, especially since it is clear, based on yours and a moderator's feedback that the problem is mine. I can try to communicate more clearly, but as I told the moderator, my posts will be longer in an attempt to cover any possible objections to what I say in my posts.

Right now, I am going through a difficult time with a new medication that I am having a difficult time adjusting to. Maybe I should refrain from positing until that settles down.

Thanks Barry,

Tony
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Old 07-10-2022, 01:08 PM
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Right now, I am going through a difficult time with a new medication that I am having a difficult time adjusting to. Maybe I should refrain from positing until that settles down.

Thanks Barry,

Tony
I had a funny feeling something was going on as the character/tone of your posts had changed and I should have tempered my postings to reflect that. I'm sorry you're having difficulties with your medication, and I hope you can get it worked it out.

I went through a similar issue with my bp meds a couple of years ago and it's not fun. Be well Tony. Get out your guitar, play, relax and enjoy it.
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Old 07-10-2022, 01:12 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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I had a funny feeling something was going on as the character/tone of your posts had changed and I should have tempered my postings to reflect that. I'm sorry you're having difficulties with your medication, and I hope you can get it worked it out.

I went through a similar issue with my bp meds a couple of years ago and it's not fun. Be well Tony. Get out your guitar, play, relax and enjoy it.
Thanks Barry. Will do.

Tony
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Old 07-10-2022, 04:21 PM
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I'm sorry to read that you're not feeling well, Tony. I hope you are feeling better soon.

I've been reading about the CAGED system and have watched a few YT videos on the subject.

My take aways:

1) It's one tool of many for learning how to navigate the fretboard
2) It has its fans and detractors
3) People feel kind of strongly about it
4) Most of the people trying to explain it in the YT videos get do a great job on some aspects of it and a not so great job on others, leaving plenty of confusion among viewers
5) The concept of movable chords is very important to learn for guitar; however you get there is all good

Early on, a friend told me that if you're playing all closed strings, you can move them up and down the fretboard. So if you fret an open A chord, then move it up the neck, just playing those three strings, it will become an A#, B, C, C# as you go along.

I think as beginners we get stuck close to the nut because the first thing we learn is cowboy chords. Cowboy chords are easy but they're not moveable as such. If you fret an open C major and start moving that shape up the neck, the farther you go, the more dissonant the sound because the notes on your closed strings are getting higher, but your open strings are staying the same.

BUT if you move the shape, and you "move the nut" by barring across the strings with your first finger, then the chords are harmonious sounding again.

It may be easier for people to visualize with a diagram. I like this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarlesso...tem_locations/

This is for the major chords. I would assume it works the same for minors, 7ths, etc.

The other reason it's helpful to have some way of understanding how to move up and down the neck is for doing solos and riffs. If you play an open C chord, then want to do a little solo, you know where to find the other notes on the neck that will sound good with it and your fingers can frolic around in that area making you and your guitar sound awesome.
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Old 07-10-2022, 05:10 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Thanks Janine. Here is a paper I wrote back in the mid-1990s about the CAGED system. You can find it in a number of places around the internet as a PDF download. I linked this because somebody took the time to format it as an HTML file for easy access on the web site. At the time, I worte it as an ASCII text file because there were a number of word processors around, each with their own file format and I knew that regardless of whoever won the marketplace, ASCII text would always be readable. If I were to write it today, I would do it as a well formatted PDF with decent diagrams instead of using ASCII. I have no intention of doing so, but over the years, based on email I have received, many people used this document as it is and gotten what they needed from it.

https://lickbyneck.com/Lesson-CHORDM...olinSobers.htm

There are many very good resources in books, youtube videos, DVDs, etc. Different people relate well to different ways of presenting the information, and mine is just one among many, but may be helpful. I personally think that the playlist I had originally linked to in this thread is the best, short of buying a course or book on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQO...chMethodGuitar

The OP's video is good to. A brief introduction to the CAGED system. The CAGED system goes as deep as a person is willing to dig and apply it, and there are many good resources about it.

Edit: I should mention that I am glad to see your grasp of the CAGED system, Janine. There seems to be a fair amount of controversy about it as some folks seem to think it is quite limiting. However, everything I have ever seen presented in any "system" fits so neatly in the CAGED system if one spends enough time with it to truly understand it. I am currently working with Barry Greene's (jazz guitarist) lessons and all of his "Stepping Stone" lesson series on scales and chords easily maps directly into the CAGED system. Those lesson form the foundation of everything else he teaches. That is but one example of the value of the CAGED system. Even Joe Pass taught it. It isn't that other systems aren't equally practical, but instead that CAGED is also a good system among many, as you said.

I just realized, I need to be very clear that Barry Greene does NOT teach the CAGED (or any) system, but what he does teach, I have noticed fits neatly within the CAGED system which helps me memorize his lessons and make them a part of my "bag of tricks". On the other hand, Robert Conti has his own approach that does not fit neatly into the CAGED system, but really works well to get the student playing tunes quickly. I am fascinated by all of it, CAGED or not.

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 07-10-2022 at 06:46 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2022, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janinep7 View Post
I'm sorry to read that you're not feeling well, Tony. I hope you are feeling better soon.

I've been reading about the CAGED system and have watched a few YT videos on the subject.

My take aways:

1) It's one tool of many for learning how to navigate the fretboard
2) It has its fans and detractors
3) People feel kind of strongly about it
4) Most of the people trying to explain it in the YT videos get do a great job on some aspects of it and a not so great job on others, leaving plenty of confusion among viewers
5) The concept of movable chords is very important to learn for guitar; however you get there is all good

Early on, a friend told me that if you're playing all closed strings, you can move them up and down the fretboard. So if you fret an open A chord, then move it up the neck, just playing those three strings, it will become an A#, B, C, C# as you go along.

I think as beginners we get stuck close to the nut because the first thing we learn is cowboy chords. Cowboy chords are easy but they're not moveable as such. If you fret an open C major and start moving that shape up the neck, the farther you go, the more dissonant the sound because the notes on your closed strings are getting higher, but your open strings are staying the same.

BUT if you move the shape, and you "move the nut" by barring across the strings with your first finger, then the chords are harmonious sounding again.

It may be easier for people to visualize with a diagram. I like this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarlesso...tem_locations/

This is for the major chords. I would assume it works the same for minors, 7ths, etc.

The other reason it's helpful to have some way of understanding how to move up and down the neck is for doing solos and riffs. If you play an open C chord, then want to do a little solo, you know where to find the other notes on the neck that will sound good with it and your fingers can frolic around in that area making you and your guitar sound awesome.

I think without even trying, you just explained the cage system just as well as anyone I have heard try and in a lot less words! Well done.

To the OP, well done also, I hope your friend learns from this.

For me, even knowing a little about the cage system is helpful to add variety to your arrangements, something as simple as playing a D shape on the 7th fret for a G or an open A shape for a D can be fun with fingerstyle or strumming if you just play those three strings etc.

Anything that gets you up the neck is great for added variety, single notes, solos etc.


To Barry and Tony, way to go fellas. Glad to see things end in a positive note and we can all learn from that. The intent of our writing on anonymous forums often seems clear to us as we know what we mean to say, but can come off completely differently to a reader who is not privy to our true intent.
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Old 07-10-2022, 05:27 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
I think without even trying, you just explained the cage system just as well as anyone I have heard try and in a lot less words! Well done.

To the OP, well done also, I hope your friend learns from this.

For me, even knowing a little about the cage system is helpful to add variety to your arrangements, something as simple as playing a D shape on the 7th fret for a G or an open A shape for a D can be fun with fingerstyle or strumming if you just play those three strings etc.

Anything that gets you up the neck is great for added variety, single notes, solos etc.


To Barry and Tony, way to go fellas. Glad to see things end in a positive note and we can all learn from that. The intent of our writing on anonymous forums often seems clear to us as we know what we mean to say, but can come off completely differently to a reader who is not privy to our true intent.
Tom...aren't you the guy who puts on the guitar gathering down there in Texas? If so, well done! I would love to get down there, but my wife can't travel anymore so we don't.

Thanks for the kind words. You nailed the problem in your last paragraph. A lot of what gets me in trouble here would be so easily handled in face to face conversation where tone of voice, facial expression, and body language all contribute to the communication effort. A passing comment in such a conversation becomes written in stone, out of context, in a forum. Miscommunication is quickly caught and cleared up within the flow of a face to face conversation, but not so well in a forum between posts.

Thanks,

Tony
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Last edited by tbeltrans; 07-10-2022 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 07-10-2022, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
Tom...aren't you the guy who puts on the guitar gathering down there in Texas? If so, well done! I would love to get down there, but my wife can't travel anymore so we don't.

Thanks for the kind words. You nailed the problem in your last paragraph. A lot of what gets me in trouble here would be so easily handled in face to face conversation where tone of voice, facial expression, and body language all contribute to the communication effort. A passing comment in such a conversation becomes written in stone, out of context, in a forum. Miscommunication is quickly caught and cleared up within the flow of a face to face conversation, but not so well in a forum between posts.

Thanks,

Tony
Yes I am and it is coming up in September. We have an absolutely great lineup of varied luthiers this year and the two concerts, (Friday and Saturday night should be amazing with Carl Miner from Taylor Swift and TNAG fame on Friday and Frog and Toad followed by Thomas Leeb on Saturday). We have a lot of couples that come and just as many individual folks who come. All are welcome, I have room for about 12 more this year.

Also agree on your last paragraph as well. All we have are words, no nuance, no facial expressions, no laughs to help express our true meanings on these forums. One has to be ever diligent in our wording so as not to convey unintended meanings.
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Old 07-10-2022, 06:41 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Yes I am and it is coming up in September. We have an absolutely great lineup of varied luthiers this year and the two concerts, (Friday and Saturday night should be amazing with Carl Miner from Taylor Swift and TNAG fame on Friday and Frog and Toad followed by Thomas Leeb on Saturday). We have a lot of couples that come and just as many individual folks who come. All are welcome, I have room for about 12 more this year.

Also agree on your last paragraph as well. All we have are words, no nuance, no facial expressions, no laughs to help express our true meanings on these forums. One has to be ever diligent in our wording so as not to convey unintended meanings.
I have lots of respect for you folks who organize these types of events, and yours sounds like a big one. It must be a lot of work. Some years ago, there were people around here who organized house concerts and I always enjoyed that. Also years ago, I was able to attend local guitar shows and the musician's flea market. I always enjoyed these things.

Personally, I am one who pitches in to help out when somebody else organizes an event. I typically set up and tear down tables and chairs and cleanup, maybe take part in the planning, etc. I just never have wanted to be the organizer. That takes somebody special, in my opinion.

Tony
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Old 07-11-2022, 09:13 AM
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I am going to take a break from the forums for a while, and this was the only thread that I would have been actively responding to. So I sincerely hope that my post in this thread providing comments and links for CAGED material proves helpful to somebody. If I again offended anybody in that rather lengthy post, please just ask the moderators to remove it and please understand that it was never my intention to be offensive.

Tony
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Old 07-11-2022, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramsnad View Post
I was getting ready to explain the caged system to a friend when I decided to put together this video. The video covers some basics that anyone that has wondered about the caged system should find useful.

Let me know your thoughts and good luck. Forgive me for playing a telecaster lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUgpE7jKpM
Hi Daniel…
The basic useful takeaway from the CAGED system I implement is two-fold.

First of all it quickly defines the major keys we like to play in as guitarists. C, A, G, E, and D.

Second I used it to teach other players to quickly locate alternate capo positions using first position chords to play in the same key as someone else, while chording in a different 'apparent' key. My experience with many amateur players in ensemble situations is multiple guitarists are all playing the same chord, the same way at the same time. Rather than choosing the best one to play and make the rest sit out, why not teach them to use a capo and move their fingerings to a different key while sounding the same chords.

For instance if they are playing in Key of G, I can locate the 'G' inversion on the 7th fret by playing a traditional 'D' chord fingering. Just capo two frets behind it and I can play in D while sounding in G.

If I want/need to play in Bb, I drop the pinky on the Bb on the high e string (6th fret) and capo three frets behind it and play in key of G (while sounding in Bb).

Takes a week or two and a bit-o-knowledge of names of notes on the fretboard. The basic advantage is it breaks out of first position chords, and unlocks one from barring everything.




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Old 07-11-2022, 09:40 AM
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Back in the dawn of time, when I took guitar lessons as a 19 year old, my instructor had me use Mel Bay's Rythym Guitar Method. Its still in print I believe. Great book.

https://www.melbay.com/Products/9321...rd-system.aspx
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Last edited by TBman; 07-11-2022 at 10:32 AM.
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