Expression System vs K&K Pure Mini comparison video

[Xtremca]

Hey forum folks,

I just picked up a used Taylor 414 LTD that was stripped of its ES system and equipped with a K&K pure mini pickup. While I await for the guitar to acclimate to its new home, I figured I'd do some search for comparisons between the Taylor ES and other pickup options. I came across this youtube clip that seems to provide some decent audio comparison between these two particular pickups that was recently uploaded. Thought I'd share the link. I've go no affiliation, but check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsb_NNUUVuE

[dberkowitz]

My problem with the test is that's inherently biased. The Expression system has onboard processing while the Pure Mini is designed to work with an external preamp. The video explains that the only interface is a Apogee duet which is a USB interface, not a preamp. I don't think it's a fair comparison. I will say the Expression sounded very open, if a little metallic.

[Xtremca]

Originally Posted by dberkowitz

My problem with the test is that's inherently biased. The Expression system has onboard processing while the Pure Mini is designed to work with an external preamp. The video explains that the only interface is a Apogee duet which is a USB interface, not a preamp. I don't think it's a fair comparison. I will say the Expression sounded very open, if a little metallic.

While it may be slightly biased towards the ES due to the preamp, my ears did tend to lean towards the warmth of the mini. With Taylor's already excelling in the higher frequencies, I think it could be easy to over treble the ES. Overall, given the cost between either system, you could opt for a decent pre and still be well under the cost of the ES.

[Steely Glen]

I thought both sounded good in their own way. I did find the K&K muddy and preferred the ES over it. My lesson in all this? I'm glad we all have options.

[akafloyd]

While there are definite differences, both sound pleasant. To my ears each could use a little tweak of eq, but if I heard someone playing that guitar with either I wouldn't say, "if only that guitar had the other pickup..."

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by dberkowitz

The video explains that the only interface is a Apogee duet which is a USB interface, not a preamp.

The Duet includes a preamp, of course. Two very nice ones, capable of 75db of gain.

[dberkowitz]

That would be fine if all the pickup needed was to bring it to line level. It isn't clear that the Expression only does this.

[alohachris]

Another pro-Expression thread. So creative.

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at."

If it's true that we all do hear very differently from one another, then it's also true that those who love & tout the Expression System have hearing loss issues as well. (just a joke, friends, just a joke aimed at no one in particular).

However, there really is absolutely ZERO comparison - when listening to each live & in person through the exact same signal chain - between the sound of the ES & the sound of a K&K.

alohachris

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by dberkowitz

That would be fine if all the pickup needed was to bring it to line level. It isn't clear that the Expression only does this.

Doing "fair" tests is really hard. When thinking about it for my pickup tests, I came up with a couple of principles. Not perfect, but they make sense to me:

1. Compare the pickup exactly as shipped - default settings. Presumably the manufacturer isn't shipping something that they think needs extensive mods to sound ok. I assume they are putting their best foot forward, so let's see what they are giving you.

2. Tell people exactly what you did. The only thing I'd judge "unfair" is if one recording was secretly EQd, or otherwise manipulated. Otherwise, as long as you understand the setup, it's a valid demo.

So in this case, we have an active pickup with an onboard preamp vs a passive pickup. Hearing how they both sound is useful. You might start asking questions, like "how would these pickups sound with some EQ", etc, but that's a different experiment.

Things get really messy as soon as you start adding more variables. Say he'd used the K&K Quantum for the K&K. People would say "no fair, the K&K had an external preamp". OK, so let's add Taylor's reccomended preamp, the K4. Now it's "No fair, it's using 2 different preamps". OK, let's use the same preamp, say the K4 for both. Now it's "No fair, K&K doesn't recommend the K4". On and on. There's really no way to totally level the playing field.

The other direction to go is just to say "here's my complete setup - lots of extra gear, massive EQ and processing", whatever. And then just say "how's that sound. Doug Kennedy at fingerpick.com takes that approach, and the recent AG "5 Rigs" demo is another. Very useful, but hard to do direct comparisons.

[Xtremca]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Another pro-Expression thread. So creative.
alohachris

You lost me on that statement. I guess I missed any indication of the thread being pro-expression.

x

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by alohachris

If it's true that we all do hear very differently from one another, then it's also true that those who love & tout the Expression System have hearing loss issues as well.

It must be great to have the best hearing on the planet and be able to determine what the best amplified acoustic tone is.

[Hotspur]

My reaction to the strumming is that the ES sounded super Taylory - very chimey and bright, perhaps too much so, whereas the K&K sounded muffled in comparison in the heavy strumming.

They both came across much better in the arpeggiated sections.

Part of that makes me wonder if the ES would work better in a guitar that was a little more balanced.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by Xtremca

Hey forum folks,

I just picked up a used Taylor 414 LTD that was stripped of its ES system and equipped with a K&K pure mini pickup. While I await for the guitar to acclimate to its new home, I figured I'd do some search for comparisons between the Taylor ES and other pickup options. I came across this youtube clip that seems to provide some decent audio comparison between these two particular pickups that was recently uploaded. Thought I'd share the link. I've go no affiliation, but check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsb_NNUUVuE

Thanks for the interesting clip, Xtremca. As is the case with high quality vocal mics, as well, both transducers sound pleasing to the ear, while also sounding markedly different from each other. I was surprised that the timbral differences weren't as subtle as I had anticipated.

[AlRob]

Originally Posted by Xtremca

Hey forum folks,

I just picked up a used Taylor 414 LTD that was stripped of its ES system and equipped with a K&K pure mini pickup. While I await for the guitar to acclimate to its new home, I figured I'd do some search for comparisons between the Taylor ES and other pickup options. I came across this youtube clip that seems to provide some decent audio comparison between these two particular pickups that was recently uploaded. Thought I'd share the link. I've go no affiliation, but check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsb_NNUUVuE

Thank you very much for the clip Xtremca. Questions I would ask the YouTube poster
What was your recording setup?
Any acoustic bleed at all?
What kind of strings are you using?

[dogdog49]

Hi and thanks for this. I'm surprised no one's commented on your beautiful playing. Is that your arrangement of "And So It Goes"? It's terrific and I'd love to get the tab if it's available.