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  #61  
Old 07-04-2009, 09:05 AM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
I think it's entirely possible one person can/does hear instruments opening up and another doesn't.
Possible.

Just like a very few people can multiply a series of 3, 4, 5 digit numbers together without a calculator and essentially "immediately". Same thing for square roots and cube roots, etc.

But it's FAR from normal. In fact, it's probably not even on a bell-curve.

Some people even see numbers in color. Hmmmm, now that I think about that, does it mean that numbers really DO have color, and the rest of us just can't see it?

I'm not doubting what you claim your abilities are . . just pointing out that it's definitely not "the common experience".
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  #62  
Old 07-04-2009, 09:10 AM
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The difference is, your wife has a way of proving it.

Proving that one can remember exactly how a guitar sounded 1, 5, 10, 20, etc years ago is a bit more difficult to accomplish.
Not sure proof enters into it or is even possible. It is very possible some individuals have anomalous abilities that can neither be proved or disproved. John Edwards gets on TV and talks to dead people. He can't prove he does nor can anyone prove he can't. You either accept it or you don't.

Sensory memory in all mammals and maybe other species is very limited. Best theory I have heard for why this is the case is that it would be debilitating to "re-experience" extreme pain on demand as it would be "de-motivating" to be able to "re-experience" extreme pleasure. In both cases, we process a rationalization of the experience and can remember whether we do or do not want to experience it again.
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  #63  
Old 07-04-2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
...Proving that one can remember exactly how a guitar sounded 1, 5, 10, 20, etc years ago is a bit more difficult to accomplish.
Hi SF...
Don't feel a need to prove it since I've never doubted it, just enjoyed it.
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  #64  
Old 07-04-2009, 10:11 AM
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Don't feel a need to prove it since I've never doubted it, just enjoyed it.
Oh, I'd feel the need to prove it. Why?

Simple. I *can* "remember" how things sounded, too. But I'm pretty sure it's not accurate.
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  #65  
Old 07-04-2009, 10:14 AM
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Or think about it another way. How well do you remember conversations from years ago? How about things you read, or learned?

And if we all remembered that well, why do we have arguments about was said or read? LD

As I told my boss once: I remember lots of numbers, and lots of questions. The issue I have is putting the right numbers with the right questions.

My philosphy has always been, I guess, this: if it's really important, I'll remember it. Otherwise, I just need to remember where to look it up.
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  #66  
Old 07-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Hambone Hambone is offline
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
The difference is, your wife has a way of proving it.

Proving that one can remember exactly how a guitar sounded 1, 5, 10, 20, etc years ago is a bit more difficult to accomplish.
And my point is that individuals don't need to "prove it" to anyone if they themselves believe it to be true.

How do you "prove" that red is your favorite color?
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  #67  
Old 07-04-2009, 12:26 PM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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If you say to someone "Guitars improve their sound over the first several years they are played" you either have to offer proof or refrain from making such claims. You are making a statement about observable reality and the person hearing it quite rightly will expect it to have some basis in actual fact. It's akin to saying "The sun will rise at 6:53AM tomorrow", the statement either accords with actual fact or it does not.

If you say "I believe my guitar has improved its sound over the first several years I've played it" no proof is required. You are making a statement about your own beliefs and as such, the statement is immune from challenge by anyone other than yourself. It's akin to saying "I believe my kids love me".

Of course anyone who likes is free to make statements about observable reality that are wholly without proof or evidence. And I am free to think such a person is babbling idiotically. And I do.
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  #68  
Old 07-04-2009, 12:35 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
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Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
And my point is that individuals don't need to "prove it" to anyone if they themselves believe it to be true.

How do you "prove" that red is your favorite color?
The "what is reality" question.
A bit like the "Emperor's new clothes" scenario.
If the Emperor actually believes he is wearing new clothes...then what difference does it make to him if he is or he isn't?
A very valid point of view.

The problem is, if somebody else decides to adopt the emperor's fashion style they may find it does make a difference come winter time.
"What is real" does matter to them.
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  #69  
Old 07-04-2009, 01:05 PM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Well, one philosopher, Husserl, argued that our perception of the world is a two-way process. By that, I think he meant that we, as subjects, participate in the creation of the objects we perceive; that the subject and object are not independent in their relationship with each other. A beautiful rose is such because my perception constructs it in this way. I imagine that Husserl would say we play an active role in whether a guitar opens up or not ie. if we think it will, then it probably will. Or something like that!
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  #70  
Old 07-04-2009, 01:40 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
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Originally Posted by ewalling View Post
Well, one philosopher, Husserl, argued that our perception of the world is a two-way process. By that, I think he meant that we, as subjects, participate in the creation of the objects we perceive; that the subject and object are not independent in their relationship with each other. A beautiful rose is such because my perception constructs it in this way. I imagine that Husserl would say we play an active role in whether a guitar opens up or not ie. if we think it will, then it probably will. Or something like that!
And then you have Samuel Johnson coming along and kicking that rock, saying "I refute it thus".
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  #71  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:14 PM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
And my point is that individuals don't need to "prove it" to anyone if they themselves believe it to be true.

How do you "prove" that red is your favorite color?
If you're trying to draw an analogy, then you're saying that "guitar's opening up" isn't a fact, but is subjective.

Is that what you intended to do?
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  #72  
Old 07-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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I think their are alot of real crappy guitars out their -and alot of them are on the exspensive side - sometimes time makes a mediorce guitar good ( not great ) what really matters with any guitar is not the instrument itelf but who plays it and how they play it . i never judge a guitarist by their guitar but on how they play their instrument -its not a snobby judgement but more of a how much they put them selves into their music or the feelings they put into it .When i was 18 ( thats 36 years ago ) i though i was hot stuff because i had a custom telecaster -until a good guitarist showed me i was a so-so guitarist with a great guitar - so in my opinion stop looking for that ultimate guitar and just play the crap out of what you have !
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  #73  
Old 07-04-2009, 03:10 PM
brian a. brian a. is offline
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Originally Posted by Tony Burns View Post
I think their are alot of real crappy guitars out their ----- so in my opinion stop looking for that ultimate guitar and just play the crap out of what you have !
+1. Well said.

If you think your guitar has improved with age, great for you. If you don't think a guitar has improved with age, don't buy it. Either way it's only your opinion and that may vary from mine. Now lets go PLAY the crap out them!!!!!!!
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  #74  
Old 07-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
And then you have Samuel Johnson coming along and kicking that rock, saying "I refute it thus".
He was "refuting" Berkeley. And while it is a famous incident, it fails as a refutation. Berkeley's theory can completely account for the kicking of a rock.
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  #75  
Old 07-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
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He was "refuting" Berkeley. And while it is a famous incident, it fails as a refutation.
Yes.
And the good Bishop's claim of "the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal."

Seems like a pretty good refutation to me. How else to account for the broken toe?
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