Dave Matthews Live Sound - Page 2

joe white · #16 09-12-2006, 06:48 AM

About the only time I have ever heard a good acoustic guitar sound with a large full band live show was David Crowder. I think you could call all the guys in that band tone snobs.

Seems that the only way to get an acoustic guitar to "cut" through within a loud group is to eq it to the point that it is more of a percussive instrument than a guitar.

astrummer · #17 09-12-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

Yes, I'm a tone snob. That's why I design gear. If I had had the guitars and pickups I'm now designing and building back when I was a pro guitarist, I might still be a pro guitarist!

I got myself in trouble on a couple of occasions because I can hear a duck a mile away and I tried to offer comments to improve the situation .....

sdelsolray · #18 09-12-2006, 08:03 AM

I'm with Rick on this one. Although I haven't had the opportunity to hear Dave Matthews live, I have heard plenty of his tunes and albums, both studio and live cuts. His live sound (and sometomes his studio sound) is not very pleasing to my ears - it's very distracting. It's definitely a sound that I've heard numerous times before, and it's pretty common. Still, any artist can chose whatever sound they want. I would assume Matthews has chosen this sound over others. It's kinda like the pickle slices McDonald's uses. Popular, yes, but certainly not a Claussen.

yukonkornelius · #19 09-12-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

I'd leave a concert that sounded like Dave Matthews' recorded live sound.

I'd love to be there to help ya out the door.

Taylor007 · #20 09-12-2006, 09:20 AM

Man - you just can't mention the name Dave Matthews w/o a few hacks ripping you & Dave a new one. Jealousy I reckon. No big deal.

Taylor007 · #21 09-12-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyride

I'd love to be there to help ya out the door.

w/ backup

jsmarshall · #22 09-12-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor007

w/ backup

Need another set of hands?

It doesn't matter if you state your first post with precautions to a Dave Matthews thread, you know someone is going to have to put their negative $.02 in. It's only a matter of tastes, and I happen to like his tone (and even the jangle of the strings hitting the threats).

Back in the day (which was a Wednesday) when Dave had electronics on board he would always tape them so he couldn't accidentally hit them. So I guess he's just saving the duct tape for more important things.

As for boutique guitars, he does have a Lakewood, if that counts for anything.

Rick Turner · #23 09-12-2006, 09:46 AM

Believe me, I've worked with some of the best when it comes to tone. I've got zero jealousy with regard to DMs ouvre. He's a good songwriter, he's a decent guitarist; and his tone sucks big time. Either he's deaf (and since I'm now working with a deaf musician who has an exquisite sense of tone, that's no excuse...); he's never listened critically to tone (entirely likely), or he's so jaded and caught up with how popular he is that he just doesn't give a s... I really have a hard time accepting players who have a certain level of chops, but who inflict that kind of painful tone on their audience. Clearly the box office receipts are more important than delivering a superior aural experience...which could be done with no dimunition of the box office. I've met a lot of musicians who steadfastly refuse to accept responsibility for this kind of thing, and I have no use for them. I've also worked with a lot of musicians...top of the charts folks...who really care about their sound and their tone and who consistently deliver the goods and who are constantly trying to improve their sound. Try Jackson Browne, David Crosby, David Lindley, Martin Simpson, Laurence Juber, James Taylor, etc., etc. Dave Matthews has no excuse for sounding that bad...and being in a band context is no excuse, either. Just listen to his duo stuff with just him and another guitarist. Unlistenable guitar sounds. Just my opinion.

Antz_Marchin · #24 09-12-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

I've got zero jealousy with regard to DMs ouvre. He's a good songwriter, he's a decent guitarist; and his tone sucks big time.

WOW

or he's so jaded and caught up with how popular he is that he just doesn't give a s...

^what a jackass comment

I really have a hard time accepting players who have a certain level of chops, but who inflict that kind of painful tone on their audience. Clearly the box office receipts are more important than delivering a superior aural experience...which could be done with no dimunition of the box office.

^another

Dave Matthews has no excuse for sounding that bad...and being in a band context is no excuse, either. Just listen to his duo stuff with just him and another guitarist. Unlistenable guitar sounds. Just my opinion.

^Oh the 3rd time's the charm

I'm not one to cause rifts on this forum but I was willing to let go the comment last week when I was trying to LEARN the difference between 2 products and all I got was an "I'm a smarter soundman than you" with no aim to help but only to be condecending post from you.

And now this. Hacking one of the most charitable, cause driven and fan friendly musicians around by saying he doesn't care for his audiences because of his tone. I've seen nearly 20 shows since '97 and have loved every second of every one. I love James Taylor almost equally but does he not give a **** about his fans with his 1.5 hour "heavenly tone" concerts?? Do his fans not deserve the 3 hours that Dave and band puts in each night (which they also openly allow their fans to record)?? Did you listen to Folsom Field (a poor example of live DMB recording)and base all of your opinion on that? And the fact that you've never seen him live? How can you justify this. Like me slandering that terrible, slow Ferrari that I have never driven or seen, but I saw the numbers in the magazine and man they looked slow. Well like I said, I'm not trying to cause any issues here at all but I just don't understand what the problem is......wait.....unless you're an engineer?? And you're like that engineer I lived with in 3rd year who thought he was smarter than every one so talked down to them all the time......just a wild guess.

Antz_Marchin · #25 09-12-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyride

I'd love to be there to help ya out the door.

You grab the feet, I'll grab the arms 1.....2.....3 TOSS

....holy crap, I'm actually angry......doesn't happen too often.

Rick Turner · #26 09-12-2006, 10:58 AM

You guys are confusing music with tone. His music is pretty darned good. His tone is not. He could sound a lot better than he does...if he cared to. I don't hear that sound as a logical choice; I hear it as coming from someone who either doesn't care or who hasn't taken the time to learn how to play and hear tone. He's not the only good musician to suffer from this deficit.

Once again, I'm not attacking him or his music. Just the dreadful sound of his guitar as I've heard it on live recordings.

Get over it. Don't confuse the issues. This is nothing I wouldn't tell him to his face. His tone is dreadful for anyone who has spent a lot of time with really fine instruments. It's not a personal attack, you guys. Lighten up and respect specific criticism.

Dave Matthews quacks like a duck...

Rick Turner · #27 09-12-2006, 11:04 AM

By the way, yes, I'm an engineer. I've also been a professional acoustic guitarist, a recording engineer, and producer. I build guitars; I design pickups; and I've been a pro at all this since 1963. I do know my stuff, and I still say that Dave M. may be a fine, fine person, a good songwriter, and none of that, nor how many hours he spends on a stage giving his fans what they want has anything to do with how bad his recorded live guitar sound is. Come on now...get over the adulation and put on your honestly critical ears, guys. Stop sucking up to what a star he is, and just listen to the sucky guitar sound. I've got nothing against him other than his guitar sound...Don't you secretly wish it was better? Have you ever really listened to someone like Martin Simpson to understand how good live sound can actually be? Or are you just such DM fans that he can do no wrong?

Guyute · #28 09-12-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

All you have to do is follow the career and sound of players like Martin Simpson, Laurence Juber, and Muriel Anderson to know that the artist can be responsible for good tone.

As for liking that sound...well I won't go much further here than saying I'd leave a concert that sounded like Dave Matthews' recorded live sound. That sound is simply un-musical to a tremendous degree. I did, in fact, once leave an Al DiMeola concert for just that reason...I couldn't stand the tone.

Yes, I'm a tone snob. That's why I design gear. If I had had the guitars and pickups I'm now designing and building back when I was a pro guitarist, I might still be a pro guitarist!

Rick, you should see if you can contact his camp about demoing the Mama Bear

Guyute · #29 09-12-2006, 11:58 AM

This thread has gone very wrong folks. Look, Rick is entitled to his opinion and the Dave folks are entitled to theirs. Both sides have offered valid arguments, but the truth is that what Rick perceives as painful is completely normal to a lot of people.

Personally, I agree that Dave doesn't have a natural sound, but as a performing musician, I know I'm more critical than 95% of any given audience. Does that diminish his art? Nope. I think Rick would agree with that. I just went to 2 nights in a row and I'll tell you right now, the guitar tone was the furthest thing from my mind. I think every DMB fan out there would agree with me on this.

Come to think of it, I was more annoyed by the fact that on a 2 night stand, they repeated 2 songs. Even with that, the concerts were a blast, the band is tighter than I've heard them and they continue to improve the more I hear them. Remember that what you hear on live recordings is a lot different from what you hear in the crowd. Even an audience tape isn't a good representation of what's in the air at the venue. Recordings are much more revealing and in the case of the official live releases, they're straight from the soundboard making them even more unforgiving. And the fact that Dave could use the ES or any number of other systems lends credence to the idea that the piezo is the sound he's chosen to use with the band. Lots of people thought Jerry Garcia's electric tone was annoying, but I loved it.

BTW, while I love the 12 string songs, his 12 string sound is worse than the 6 string

yukonkornelius · #30 09-12-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

By the way, yes, I'm an engineer. I've also been a professional acoustic guitarist, a recording engineer, and producer. I build guitars; I design pickups; and I've been a pro at all this since 1963. I do know my stuff,

Well I'm a soldier of fortune, seeker of peace, international lover & philosopher. I'm a pro at taming tigers, converting virgins, castrating alligators and extinguishing fires. I've also been known to empty bars, quell uprisings & start revolutions. Granted, I am not know as the self proclaimed "Jesus Christ of Sound" But... I did save 15% of my car insurance AND stay in a Holiday Inn Express all in the same day.

With all due respect, if your ears weren't constantly filled with the sounds of you telling yourself how wonderful and talented you are, perhaps everything would sound a bit better.