Eastman AR610 - Next step?

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FTI if you're looking at - and can afford - an Eastman AR610, you can also afford one of these:

https://reverb.com/item/76204810-196...st-repair-free
https://reverb.com/item/74408337-epi...ard-shell-case

- this little sweetie from 1938 just happens to be in your neck of the woods:

https://reverb.com/item/73657984-epi...-1938-sunburst

- any of which will do the job of your (and my) Godin 5th Avenue more than slightly better...

More options! This is going to drive me mad.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

This is going to drive me mad.

Oh no! Let me help you with that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UKxkTQcICQ

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Oh no! Let me help you with that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UKxkTQcICQ

Too late! I've already tipped over the edge! This short clip dropped into my WhatsApp tonight from a gig a couple of weeks ago. There's no hope for me.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

There's no hope for me.

Indeed! Well, just remember:


(also remember that any clips featuring mattress dancing might not fall well on here - let's see if you get the reference )

[Robin, Wales]

I did some fettling on my 5th Avenue tonight after my experience of playing at a the last few gigs. I re-profiled the top of the bridge, set the relief and set the action. It is playing loud and clean now.

[L50EF15]

I was thinking about checking this one out over the weekend:

https://www.retrofret.com/product.as...ic-Guitar-1936

The equivalent of a Gibson L50, I understand.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

I was thinking about checking this one out over the weekend:

https://www.retrofret.com/product.as...ic-Guitar-1936

The equivalent of a Gibson L50, I understand.

I'd love to hear your opinion on it after you have played it.

[Pitiful picker]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I'm guessing you saw this video? (I really like Andreas Schultz's demos!)

That's a lovely tone on the purely acoustic 605. Wondering if folks think the floating pickup/pickguard equipped version would have a similar unamplified tone or if the float pu and pick guard attachements would adversely impact it.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Pitiful picker

Wondering if folks think the floating pickup/pickguard equipped version would have a similar unamplified tone or if the float pu and pick guard attachements would adversely impact it.

- From what I've seen Eastman do put some felt or foam under the floater so it doesn't really float. Theoretically that would damp the top, of course. Whether a pure floater affects the sound other than through magnetic interaction with the strings would depend a little bit on how it's attached. If to the fretboard extension it should act to make that extension a bit longer and heavier; if to the pickguard it would depend on how that thing is fixed.
- A pickguard fixed to the neck or into the top right next to the neck and possible via a bracket attached to the side shouldn't have any effect on sound as long as it doesn't cover too much of a sound/f-hole. And doesn't have more foam/felt under the pots.

FWIW, here's a bit of Carter scratching on siblings of my own Loar. They confirm my own impression that a parallel-braced maple-backed archtop doesn't have to sound just thin and bright (these are actually pretty good clones of the original L5, sonically speaking).

[Robin, Wales]

I had a chance to play and assess a second hand Loar LH-600-VS today. I didn't come home with it.

The guitar had a number of build quality issues. Some of which I could have solved but, in the end, they just added up to too much effort. All were to do with the neck.

The nut slots were high (easy fix). About 1/4 of the frets were uneven (I took my fret rocker tool) - so a full fret level and re-crown was needed. But worse was the "ski jump" after the neck joint. I expect the wedge fitted under the fretboard extension was a tight push in the factory and this kicked up the fretboard extension. A couple of rubs on sandpaper at the time of fitting would have fixed the issue! Now the only solution would be to pull the frets and re-profile the fretboard, then re-fret and level.

The neck angle was good, but the bridge was the wrong size. I was right at the top of the adjustment to get an action of 2.5mm at the 12th fret under the 6th string. And this was not enough to prevent buzzing because of the "ski jump".

The Timbre - I actually found this a little disappointing. I really couldn't get anything characterful from the instrument. I even switched the strings to 13-56 monel but no joy. Some of the problem was that I just couldn't dig in to the guitar without it buzzing. But even with a light touch it was all a bit bright with no growl. I expect a different bridge (rosewood?) may well have been better for the timbre I have in mind.

The big V neck felt a little awkward but manageable. The truss rod was operational.

If it didn't need so much corrective work I may have bought it and fitted a rosewood bridge of the correct size. But as it stood, my Godin 5th Avenue is simply a much better instrument in terms of timbre and build. Playing the carved Loar made me appreciate pressed plywood as a tonewood!

One thing that I have decided to do is to buy a better gig bag for my 5th Avenue, as it is going to get well gigged this year!

So, now I need to find an Eastman to try out.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

The guitar had a number of build quality issues. [...] But worse was the "ski jump" after the neck joint. I expect the wedge fitted under the fretboard extension was a tight push in the factory and this kicked up the fretboard extension.

Yes, sadly The Loar have (or have had) QC issues. I'm convinced that there are main 2 reasons why these show up as hardly-played 2nd-hand instrumens: QC and the neck profile. I see that confirmed in the fact that it's a lot harder to find a 2nd-hand LH-650 or LH-350 because these have a modern neck.

The hump over the neckjoin is something you can encounter in most archtops from what I understand.

(And don't get me started on how difficult it apparently is for Chinese workers to seat frets properly!)

[Dave Richard]

[QUOTE=Steve DeRosa;7379261]The L-48 was always (with the possible exception of a couple highly apocryphal examples from the very earliest days of production and/or prototypes - heard about them, never saw one myself and don't know anyone who has).

I did see and play a very early(post-war?) L-48: ink numbered as such, with solid carved spruce top(and maybe solid back), short lived large script gold logo, very heavily worn surfaces, and excellent tone and volume. it was at The Music Emporium in Lexington MA, pre-pandemic. Not that expensive, either. I didn't buy it, but wish I had!

Of course, a guitar like that: solid carved top, carved(or laminated back), short scale, 16"LB, is in effect the same as a similar-built L-50.

Regarding the OPs original query, about which archtop might work well for americana and bluegrass:

I have two vintage Epiphones that seem to work very well for 'roots' music, with open chord strumming(and single note leads): a '35 Zenith(14-1/2" wide), and a '41 Blackstone(1-3/8" wide). Both have laminated backs. They both have a sound that lends itself to 'strumming' as well as 'comping'. I don't know why this is so, but I've owned and played enough other Epis to know not all are so suited. Individual guitars simply differ in sound, even by the same maker.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Dave Richard

Regarding the OPs original query, about which archtop might work well for americana and bluegrass:

I have two vintage Epiphones that seem to work very well for 'roots' music, with open chord strumming(and single note leads): a '35 Zenith(14-1/2" wide), and a '41 Blackstone(1-3/8" wide). Both have laminated backs. They both have a sound that lends itself to 'strumming' as well as 'comping'. I don't know why this is so, but I've owned and played enough other Epis to know not all are so suited. Individual guitars simply differ in sound, even by the same maker.

Thanks - I think that I would struggle with the narrow nut width of the Zenith. I have had the top section of my index finger amputated and know that I need 37mm string spacing at the nut to play cleanly. 1 11/16" is the minimum I can get away with, and only then if it doesn't have rolled edges or, in some cases, binding.

I've been playing my 5th Avenue this evening and it really does kick out a good strong sound. I would just like a shade more bass. I wish that Godin would make an acoustic version of the jumbo depth 5th Avenue. I have emailed them about doing the model but they have no plans to make either the shallow or deep 5th Avenue as an acoustic version - and they don't do custom orders. I may ask them how many I would have to order for a production run of jumbo depth acoustic archtops (10? 25? 50? 100?). If it was 25 or under then I'd do it - and do all the set-ups (fit rosewood bridges and monel strings) and sell on all but one. It may sound crazy but I have done it before with reso guitars

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Dave Richard

I did see and play a very early(post-war?) L-48: ink numbered as such, with solid carved spruce top(and maybe solid back), short lived large script gold logo, very heavily worn surfaces, and excellent tone and volume. it was at The Music Emporium in Lexington MA, pre-pandemic. Not that expensive, either. I didn't buy it, but wish I had!

Of course, a guitar like that: solid carved top, carved(or laminated back), short scale, 16" LB, is in effect the same as a similar-built L-50...

So do I - as I said I've heard about them but never seen one in person; BTW were you able to ascertain whether it was in fact a prototype, or a genuine early production model - I'd tend to think the move to a laminated top would've come with the introduction of the all-laminated postwar ES-125/150/300 models (most of which bore the "new" Gibson logo)...

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

T
I've been playing my 5th Avenue this evening and it really does kick out a good strong sound

WHat are the woods and bracing on that one?

I find it seems a bit counterproductive that you consider a mahogany-backed guitar for its warmer sound, and then try the Loar with monel strings. While very authentic in a certain way they don't do the guitar's sound any favours in my experience (and I've tried to love them...).
Strings that do work very well are the TI Spectrum 13s but there's another aspect that shouldn't be overlooked here. These aren't lightly built guitars, probably less so than the Eastmans equivalents, and both spruce and a solid maple back can take a while to be played/broken in (or open back up if it hasn't been played for years). My own Loar had hardly been played when I got it at 4-5 years old but apparently enough to open up noticeably with just a few days of the kind of digging-in I like to do. A deeper/lusher bass and mellower but also ringier highs (IMHO thanks to resp. the maple back and spruce top). I can only advise you to keep an open mind and eyes peeled for other examples you could try - unless of course there's really nothing in the videos I posted that speaks to you. BTW, the LH700 recorded by Rob Mackillop was bought by the Belgian youtuber DaddyStovePipe who made her sound very differently (to my ears).