Tonal differences in different spruce top types

[TBear]

I am pretty familiar with how the three types I am familiar with: Engelmann, Sitka and Adirondack effect tonal quality in mandolins, but not so clear as to the effect with guitars. My Tippin is Addi. The new Martin J40 is Sitka. How would those different types effect tone? Also, have not heard of many guitars with Engelmann tops. Any reason that you know of? Thanks in advance for any information.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by TBear

I am pretty familiar with how the three types I am familiar with: Engelmann, Sitka and Adirondack effect tonal quality in mandolins, but not so clear as to the effect with guitars. My Tippin is Addi. The new Martin J40 is Sitka. How would those different types effect tone? Also, have not heard of many guitars with Engelmann tops. Any reason that you know of? Thanks in advance for any information.

For me, Engelmann works better for fingerpicking than for strumming. In my case, Engelmann almost works like cedar. I own an uke with Engelmann and, at some point, I need to tone down hard strumming. Sitka can do basically everything. Excels at nothing, but does great at everything.

[jaan]

I've got 2 OMs; 1 Addy, 1 Sitka. To my ears, the Sitka has more mids and a more immediate attack, and its does have a ceiling on headroom. The Addy is more big bass and a smooth treble, and has unlimited headroom. While a lot of the differences are what you'd normally see when comparing any 2 guitars, I do feel that some generalities do exist.

[varve]

The tonal differences, assuming a given design of a guitar, arise out of the physical properties of each piece of wood, specifically stiffness and density. Altho each species and/or hybrid will have aggregate tendencies, there is a lot of overlap between them, and thus a lot of diversity of tone.

This can be graphically illustrated by a collection of data I took a few years ago while consulting for one of the wood suppliers. We tested several hundred pieces of the Lutz hybrid, Sitka, and Adirondack. The vertical axis is labeled MOE, for Modulus of Elasticity, an intrinsic measurement of stiffness that is independent of the geometry of the wood. On the horizontal axis, please note DENSITY at 8% moisture content.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/188914...posted-public/

Adirondack (cleverly in red, eh? was sourced from both the Hampton Brothers in Carolina, and from Boucher in Canada. It tends to be heavy and stiff, but it is all over the map when considering each individual piece. Typically, thus, great for a dreadnought driven by medium gauge strings, but not the first choice for a classical build.

Lutz (in green) is a hybrid between White spruce and Sitka, and grows in a limited geographic range in central BC. It tends toward low density and relatively high stiffness (above the regression line, stats wise), and is fairly tight in its diversity, which I think are two of the reasons it is sought after.

Sitka, in blue, is the most common topwood, and is by far the most diverse -- all over the graph from top to bottom. Pay attention to the lowest density Sitka for a moment - it tends to fall off the regression line in this range, with rather low MOE for its density, especially compared with Lutz. This is a limited sample, but in measuring thousands (upon thousands) of pieces since we collected this dataset, we see this rough trend bear out. It may be one of the reasons that classical builders, looking for the low density Sitka, may be disappointed when using a typical piece of Sitka.

So -- each species will have its tendencies and thus its reputation. But each species also shows a biological degree of diversity, similar to people, or really anything that lives. Thus it is probably more important to attend to the actual properties of each piece of wood, rather than simply relying upon the species label. Again, like people

Cheers, Dave Olson

[blindboyjimi]

It’s the builder, not the wood. In recipe made factory guitars, the wood is just too variable to make broad statements as 2 exact guitars made on the same day will sound different, yet their construction was identical. That’s all due to the variability on that graph. I have cedar (1), “euro” (5), Adirondack (5), Sitka (1), mahogany (1). I guarantee no one would be able to tell the top wood blind. My Sitka guitar is the loudest and has the most headroom. The mahogany and the cedar are are the only ones I’d make a statement about.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

It’s the builder, not the wood.

Beat me to it.

/thread

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBear

I am pretty familiar with how the three types I am familiar with: Engelmann, Sitka and Adirondack effect tonal quality in mandolins, but not so clear as to the effect with guitars. My Tippin is Addi. The new Martin J40 is Sitka. How would those different types effect tone? Also, have not heard of many guitars with Engelmann tops. Any reason that you know of? Thanks in advance for any information.

Hi TB

I have three spruce tops…

• Hand selected Sitka - Solo-built MiniJumbo
• Generic Sitka - OM factory built - laminate back/sides
• Italian Spruce - OM fanned fret - Solo built hand selected Italian Spruce

I think the builders of these guitars, and the design of the guitars produced the tone differences in these more than the types of Spruce used. I also think the styles I play on them affect the tone as well.

I've owned these for 14 years, 15 years, 9 years.