The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-27-2023, 07:25 AM
engblom engblom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 17
Default Does this guitar exist?

Does this guitar exist?
  1. Nylon strings
  2. Body at 14th fret
  3. Cutaway
  4. No electronics.
Basically I want a crossover guitar with cutaway but without electronics. It looks like as soon as there is a cutaway there are always electronics.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2023, 07:53 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

What is it about the electronics that you cannot just ignore?

The only time I plug in my Cabaret is when want to tune during a rehearsal and there's too much ambient noise. Quite practical. The presence of an UST doesn't seem to degrade the acoustic sound (or maybe it does but it's hard to believe it can sound significantly better).

The only non-boutique manufacturer I know that doesn't seem to put a pickup by default in their guitars is Dowina. They make hybrids (aka crossovers too). You may still be looking at a built-to-order (which they do) but if you stick to an otherwise series model there shouldn't be too much of an upcharge.
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2023, 10:41 AM
engblom engblom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
What is it about the electronics that you cannot just ignore?
There are two reasons:

First, it is about lifespan. Nowadays electronics is usually made in a cheap way and not expected to work for a long time. I work in the IT field and I have seen way too much electronics fail, latest today when a new computer monitor caught fire. I have even had to solder new capacitors to computers because they failed. I am sure a guitar will outlast any electronics. When the electronics fail they just leave ugly holes in the guitar and it might be difficult to find new electronics fitting the same holes. I want the electronics to be outside of the guitar. I am OK with some passive sound board transducers or internal microphones, because they can be easily changed without leaving visible ugly marks. But more than that I do not want.

The second reason is based upon my experience with my dreadnought acoustic guitar. I bought the cheapest acoustic guitar I could find and it had a bad sound. Then step by step I improved it in several ways and indeed I got much better response out of it by making a bone saddle for it. The hardness transferred so much better the vibrations to the soundboard. Especially as I am a light finger picker, and I do not grow long nails, I am afraid that if there is any dampening effect between the bridge and the saddle it would take away the joy of playing. But to say the truth I do not know how much an under-saddle piezo is dampening and I might be fully wrong in my assumptions.

I have pretty much given up on finding any such guitar, but I thought it is stupid to not ask. I will probably have to settle for a guitar with electronics because custom built guitars are too expensive for me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2023, 11:11 AM
Merlemantel Merlemantel is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 651
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by engblom View Post
Does this guitar exist?
  1. Nylon strings
  2. Body at 14th fret
  3. Cutaway
  4. No electronics.
Basically I want a crossover guitar with cutaway but without electronics. It looks like as soon as there is a cutaway there are always electronics.
I have recently been on the hunt myself. You can get a luthier built model with no electronics. Goodall makes a guitar to these specs, but they are expensive. There are others, but it'll be hard to find one new under 8 grand. You might luck into something used.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-27-2023, 11:25 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

A smallish preamp on the left shoulder could be transformed into a soundport but you can find crossovers that have the controls mounted inside the soundhole and the preamp onto the endplug. It should be possible to swap one such system out for another, should it fail.
A Taylor will just have the 2 (I think) controls visible on their iconic location on the left upper shoulder; the Cort OC8 N also has just the controls visible plus a tuner window.

Taylor nylon stringers don't really sound that well unplugged IMHO but that Cort does sound pretty good btw, and it has a transducer+microphone system. You could probably replace the UST with a shim and use just the internal mic if you want to plug in.

The reason there are so few crossovers without electronics is of course that plug-in-ability is part of the crossover definition. There are classical guitars with cutaway and/or radiused fingerboards. A 14-fret neckjoin is rare (it affects the sound signature and playability in classical position).

What's your budget (including shipping etc)?
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2023, 11:36 AM
engblom engblom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
What's your budget (including shipping etc)?
I have been looking at guitars around 300 EUR, but if I would truly find what I look for I could go to 400-450 EUR. With this budget it would not be possible to have any custom made guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2023, 11:55 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

It will even be hard to find a new crossover with a decent acoustic sound, to be honest. And those you might find will typically have a barn-door style Fishman preamp in their shoulder, plus a 12-fret neckjoin.

Look for a used Yamaha NTX. This one is sold but it'll give you an idea:
https://reverb.com/en-fr/item/277424...ossover-guitar
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2023, 08:24 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by engblom View Post
Does this guitar exist?
  1. Nylon strings
  2. Body at 14th fret
  3. Cutaway
  4. No electronics.
Basically I want a crossover guitar with cutaway but without electronics. It looks like as soon as there is a cutaway there are always electronics.
It does for me!

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-28-2023, 07:14 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
It does for me!
Well, if you think the OP is looking for a guitar that doesn't sound well ... he could just buy any kind of acoustic that suits his criteria and budget, ream the nut slots for the 1st and 2nd string and put ball-end nylon strings on it. That'll probably sound better than the plank in your video, in fact
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-28-2023, 08:35 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
Well, if you think the OP is looking for a guitar that doesn't sound well ... he could just buy any kind of acoustic that suits his criteria and budget, ream the nut slots for the 1st and 2nd string and put ball-end nylon strings on it. That'll probably sound better than the plank in your video, in fact
But that's not what he asked, was it?

FYI, the plank is fine for "don't wake the wife" late night fun, but it's a stopping off point for becoming a steel strung mini-bucker electric guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-28-2023, 10:47 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
But that's not what he asked, was it? .
I wouldn't be so sure. From discussions I've had with someone at Breedlove their crossovers are just that: the equivalent steel-string model with a tie-block bridge stuck on. But pin-bridges were used before people started putting steel strings on guitars so they're not that out of place on a nylon-stringer.

He also asked for something without electronics which I don't think your example conforms to
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-28-2023, 05:40 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
I wouldn't be so sure. From discussions I've had with someone at Breedlove their crossovers are just that: the equivalent steel-string model with a tie-block bridge stuck on. But pin-bridges were used before people started putting steel strings on guitars so they're not that out of place on a nylon-stringer.

He also asked for something without electronics which I don't think your example conforms to
You would be wrong on that thought.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-28-2023, 05:44 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Atheos Mons
Posts: 1,747
Default

Oh.

Well, I just found proof that THE guitar the OP is looking for exists. Very easy to play too, and incredible value for money:



Made by (and from) AIR.

__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am.

Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-28-2023, 09:30 PM
H165 H165 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woods; OC, CA
Posts: 3,039
Default

You're looking for an old Carvin CL450 without electronics. Good luck. Many spruce-top 450s and the cedar-top 450s are great guitars....but alas, I think they all have electronics. My solution would be a cedar-top 450 with bone saddle and nut, and the stock electronics replaced with K&K.

Last edited by H165; 11-28-2023 at 09:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-29-2023, 07:55 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,636
Default

Well, if I was to speculate about what the OP is REALLY asking for it would be something like my Cordoba 14 fret crossover, but with a cutaway. It's a great guitar with a nice deep resonant tone, does not have electronics, but it doesn't have the cutaway.

I bought a new Lowden walnut acoustic that was a 14 fret with cutaway many years ago, but to be honest the body thickness makes using the cutaway not all that useful. You'd think it would, but the body thickness doesn't allow your hand easy access to those upper frets.

I found that the 14 fret neck join was enough to permit all the access I needed, so the cutaway feature was a mote point.

Last edited by Rudy4; 11-29-2023 at 08:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=