Martin OM-21 with Fishman matrix infinity mic blend - too quiet!

TheLobster · #1 07-25-2019, 12:46 PM

Hi

Help!

I've recently had a Fishman matrix infinity mic blend installed in my Martin OM-21. Although it sounds good it seems a lot quieter than other pickups I've used. (Primarily L R Bagges M1 Active).

I play quite a few open mics, direct into PAs and this is causing a bit of a problem. I can't simply plug in and play as I've done previously.

I've been looking at preamps / di to try and boost the pickups output. I've looked at the L R Baggs PARA DI, L R Baggs Gigpro and Fishman Platinum Stage DI.

Is this the best solution? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

jonfields45 · #2 07-25-2019, 03:04 PM

Have you called Fishman tech support to see if there is a hidden volume control or potentially a defect in the one you bought?

TheLobster · #3 07-25-2019, 04:55 PM

I’ve already had it back to the shop to check installation. They said the installation was OK and double checked with Fishman who said that they do have a lower level deliberately to stop distortion.

I have a Sigma 000m-15s with an L R Baggs M1 Active that sounds great and has never caused me any problems. This sounds noticeably louder than the Fishman when played through the same amp with same settings.

meb · #4 07-25-2019, 09:00 PM

I passed on trying the Rare Earth Mic Blend because I was told the output
was very low. I agree that it is frustrating. I do not understand what
Fishman is thinking.....who wants to fool with what amounts to a
battery powered passive pickup. Oh well........

Zandit75 · #5 07-26-2019, 04:52 AM

Is this the latest version of the Matrix Infinity Mic Blend?
I'm just throwing ideas out to you here....

Are you adjusting the correct knob? I'd had an issue at one gig where I had barely any output, but instead of adjusting the volume, I was adjusting the tone wheel.

There is also the voicing switch which acts a little like a boost for when you are playing fingerstyle, and need slightly more volume than when you are strumming.

I hope you get it sorted, I won't use anything else, I love it.

AeroUSA · #6 07-26-2019, 05:14 AM

I didn’t notice that mine was quiet. I suggest you replace it.

Joe Barbieri · #7 07-26-2019, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLobster

Hi

Help!

I've recently had a Fishman matrix infinity mic blend installed in my Martin OM-21. Although it sounds good it seems a lot quieter than other pickups I've used. (Primarily L R Bagges M1 Active).

I play quite a few open mics, direct into PAs and this is causing a bit of a problem. I can't simply plug in and play as I've done previously.

I've been looking at preamps / di to try and boost the pickups output. I've looked at the L R Baggs PARA DI, L R Baggs Gigpro and Fishman Platinum Stage DI.

Is this the best solution? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Check your PM

-Joe B

TheLobster · #8 07-27-2019, 04:48 PM

Thanks for everyones suggestions / comments.

My pickup is the newest blend model...

https://www.fishman.com/products/ser...ity-mic-blend/

To clarify, it is a fantastic sounding pickup. I'm really pleased with the blended sound. I set mine with the voicing switch set to the extra bass setting (away from soundhole - as recommended for 000 / OMs) with 25% mic / 75% undersaddle and about 50% tone. It sounded brilliant and very natural.

When plugged directly into a PA at the Open Mic I attended, it was quiet compared to other guitars - mainly electro acoustics. I compared it directly when playing alongside a friend who has a Tanglewood guitar with a Fishman Sonicore / Fishman Presys+ pre-amp. They had to turn the PA master volume up and the mics and his guitar down to get mine to be heard properly. They normally don't have to do this. I also had to turn the pickup tone up to full and set the blend at 50 / 50. It still sounded good but not as I would have ideally liked it.

I've just compared it again with my Sigma 000m-15s with L R Baggs M1 Active, through an amp this time. It does sound better than the L R Baggs M1 (although I appreciate the Fishman is in a superior guitar) but is quieter.

I think that I've accepted that this is normal and there is nothing wrong with the Fishman pickup or installation.

An external preamp / boost could give me more control and could be the solution? Does anyone else use a preamp / di with their Fishman pickup.

Thanks

RockerDuck · #9 07-27-2019, 05:49 PM

Get the para DI. It'll boost you to the level you need. There are lots of low volume pickups that this was made for.

Kalani · #10 07-30-2019, 03:31 AM

If there’s nothing wrong with your pickup, then an external preamp will do the trick. FWIW, I have the Fishman matrix undersaddle (not blend) installed in my Martin and it’s plenty strong/loud going direct to a mixing board. Try going 100% undersaddle when you’re comparing to other systems as the undersaddle is what’s supposed to produce a strong signal to cut thru a mix.

jonfields45 · #11 07-30-2019, 06:30 AM

One of the many Boss GE-7 copies will do the boost function for not much of an investment.

TheLobster · #12 08-02-2019, 10:13 AM

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have a gig tomorrow where I'll be plugged into a larger scale PA via DI. Looking forward to seeing how my Martin sounds.

Still considering the preamp and moving towards the Baggs Para DI.

Has anyone using the Baggs Gigpro for boosting output. Looks like quite a nice, simple piece of kit.

MrErikJ · #13 08-02-2019, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLobster

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have a gig tomorrow where I'll be plugged into a larger scale PA via DI. Looking forward to seeing how my Martin sounds.

Still considering the preamp and moving towards the Baggs Para DI.

Has anyone using the Baggs Gigpro for boosting output. Looks like quite a nice, simple piece of kit.

The gig pro is good for passive pickups that can't go too far on their own. Even with something quiet like the Infinity Blend, the Para DI has more than enough power to amplify it. Simply dial-in as much gain as you can without distortion and then turn-up the output as much as necessary. The Venue has a little more power (and a Gain VU meter) but can't run on Phantom, which is a bummer. However, it has more headroom and a more neutral sound than the Para which is fairly "warm."

Howard Emerson · #14 08-02-2019, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLobster

Thanks for everyones suggestions / comments.

My pickup is the newest blend model...

https://www.fishman.com/products/ser...ity-mic-blend/

To clarify, it is a fantastic sounding pickup. I'm really pleased with the blended sound. I set mine with the voicing switch set to the extra bass setting (away from soundhole - as recommended for 000 / OMs) with 25% mic / 75% undersaddle and about 50% tone. It sounded brilliant and very natural.

When plugged directly into a PA at the Open Mic I attended, it was quiet compared to other guitars - mainly electro acoustics. I compared it directly when playing alongside a friend who has a Tanglewood guitar with a Fishman Sonicore / Fishman Presys+ pre-amp. They had to turn the PA master volume up and the mics and his guitar down to get mine to be heard properly. They normally don't have to do this. I also had to turn the pickup tone up to full and set the blend at 50 / 50. It still sounded good but not as I would have ideally liked it.

I've just compared it again with my Sigma 000m-15s with L R Baggs M1 Active, through an amp this time. It does sound better than the L R Baggs M1 (although I appreciate the Fishman is in a superior guitar) but is quieter.

I think that I've accepted that this is normal and there is nothing wrong with the Fishman pickup or installation.

An external preamp / boost could give me more control and could be the solution? Does anyone else use a preamp / di with their Fishman pickup.

Thanks

So what did Joe Barbieri from Fishman have to say?

Regards,
Howard Emerson

GuitarLuva · #15 08-02-2019, 10:51 AM

If you were told the pickup is fine I honestly wouldn't dwell on it too much. The output from a pickup is not important in the grand scheme of things as long as you like it tonally. The LR Baggs Anthem, which is another popular choice in todays market, also has a really low output for an active system as well. My current favorite pickup, Schatten HFN passive, has a low output as well but that's not going to stop me from using it.