Adjusting to a Dreadnought

[morningside]

I've been playing a Martin 000 for several years, and just bought a Guild D20, which is a relatively large dreadnought (see measurements below). It sounds great, and the neck is comfortable, but I'm having issues with the body size. I'm not small (5'10"), but my right (strumming) arm gets tired quickly, and my right pinkie and ring finger start to tingle after I've been playing for 20-30 minutes. It feels like my right elbow is very far from my torso and the soundhole. I've mostly been playing seated, and have tried a number of different positions to get comfortable (including classical), but nothing has fixed the problem yet.

When I tried the D20 before buying it, I could feel a slight strain getting my right arm around the lower bout, but I assumed I'd quickly adjust. Now, after playing it regularly for a week, I'm concerned that a dreadnought body may not work for me. My right arm is sore, which could just mean that I'm building muscle, but the tingling in my strumming hand doesn't seem normal or healthy, and I'm worried about developing shoulder pain in the future.

Has anyone else had a similar experience switching to a dreadnought from a smaller guitar? If so, were you able to adjust after a few weeks or months, or did you give up and switch back?

Note: For reference, the Guild D20 has a depth of 5" and width of 16" at the lower bout (making it slightly bigger than Martin dreadnoughts). My Martin 000, by contrast, is 4 1/8" x 15".

[Bear Davis]

Sorry to hear that your having trouble with the Guild. Without seeing a video of your ergonomics with the guitar it will be hard to give you any suggestions besides getting a smaller dread. We are the same height and dreads are my fav.

An SC Tony Rice might be in your future. Its easily the most comfortable dread I have played. It was a hair too small for me so I traded it. If you are on a budget there is also the Gibson Avant Garde models which includes the Hummingbird and the J-45 I think.

[BFD]

Are you playing seated on a couch or a chair. The latter is better in terms of providing more room for the lower bout and thus allowing the guitar and your shoulder to sit lower. The difference is not insignificant.

[Jaden]

That combination of 5” depth with 16” width at the lower bout would be killer for me/ I’m about your height. Others will recommend to adjust your seating position or preferably play while standing with a strap.

As a person who does physical work for a living, I would unload it to avoid aggravating your shoulder via unnatural position. Sorry I can’t be of any more help.

[DukeX]

A slope dread would probably be a better fit for you. The slope body is often a little longer but the lower bout is not as wide.

[Rev Roy]

Interesting. I’m having the opposite problem. I just sold a new Taylor 714ce V-Class largely because its thinner body and waist was uncomfortable for me to play because I’m used to dreads. Ends up I not only like the full dread tone but the full dread body, too.

For reference: I’m 67 and 5’ 10” or so...

[cmd612]

This sounds very familiar to me. My first "good" guitar was a dreadnought that I fell in love with for the sound. It seemed a little uncomfortable in the store, but, like you, I thought I'd adjust.

I spent about a year trying to find a way to play it without my right hand tingling. I tried every imaginable position and consulted several teachers and more experienced guitarists for advice. I eventually had to conclude that the geometry of my upper body just did not work with a guitar that big and deep. The edge of the lower bout dug into my forearm and was putting too much pressure on something - I don't know if it was on blood vessels or my ulnar nerve. I sold the guitar and vowed to never again buy a guitar that I hoped I would adjust to the feel of.

The one thing that helped somewhat was putting a sleeve on my arm - something like this - with the addition of a piece of stiff cardboard tucked inside it in the area where my arm met the edge of the guitar to spread out the pressure. With that I could play somewhat longer before the tingling and numbness set in.

Good luck.

[morningside]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I was really hoping to hear people say that these kinds of issues work themselves out, since the Guild D20 sounds and looks beautiful. It's also louder than my Martin 000, which is the main reason I wanted a dreadnought. I was looking for a guitar that would be more powerful than the 000 for flatpick rhythm playing in a band setting. You see a lot of dreadnoughts in country and Americana (Jason Isbell, Sturgill Simpson, John Prine, Tyler Childers), which is what I do.

I'll give the D20 another few weeks before I decide whether to keep it. Maybe a Gibson J45 would be another option to consider? They appear to be bigger than 000, but a little more manageable than the D20.

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by morningside

It's also louder than my Martin 000, which is the main reason I wanted a dreadnought. I was looking for a guitar that would be more powerful than the 000 for flatpick rhythm playing in a band setting.

Assuming your 000 is short scale (since usually Martin calls short scale guitars 000 and long scale guitars with the same body OM), did you try some OMs? Longer scale should give you more power.

Then there are the 0000 or M sized Martins - OM/000 body depth, but a wider bout, so more volume and a bit more low end.

Also, don't overlook the small jumbo - something like a Gibson J-185. Bigger than an OM, some of them are as deep as a Martin dreadnought, but for me at least, the tighter waist makes them much more comfortable than either a D or a slope-shoulder like the J-45. YMMV.

[sevenpalms]

I feel your pain!!! I just sold a fantastic SC Tony Rice as my right elbow started to feel like an ice pick bring jabbed in it when I’d play. Just picked up that fabulous little Webber L00 that was on the forum and hopefully that will work for me. I just think I’m at the point in life where dreads aren’t gonna work for me. Wish you all the best!

[calstang66]

I think it's common that folks switch from preference for dreadnaughts to a preference to smaller body guitars. But the reverse change is rare. I used to be all dread only, now I own one, but I much prefer my smaller guitars. Taylor and Eastman offer several guitars Grand Auditorium size, in the middle. My Eastman AC422 GA is wonderful, rosewood, sitka.

I say go smaller.....

Originally Posted by morningside

Maybe a Gibson J45 would be another option to consider? They appear to be bigger than 000, but a little more manageable than the D20.

My shoulder doesn't allow me to tolerate dreads for more than a few songs, and it's no better with a J-45. Standing up, it's more comfortable, especially in the "Dylan position" (see pic).

[guitar george]

Originally Posted by morningside

I've been playing a Martin 000 for several years, and just bought a Guild D20, which is a relatively large dreadnought (see measurements below). It sounds great, and the neck is comfortable, but I'm having issues with the body size. I'm not small (5'10"), but my right (strumming) arm gets tired quickly, and my right pinkie and ring finger start to tingle after I've been playing for 20-30 minutes. It feels like my right elbow is very far from my torso and the soundhole. I've mostly been playing seated, and have tried a number of different positions to get comfortable (including classical), but nothing has fixed the problem yet.

When I tried the D20 before buying it, I could feel a slight strain getting my right arm around the lower bout, but I assumed I'd quickly adjust. Now, after playing it regularly for a week, I'm concerned that a dreadnought body may not work for me. My right arm is sore, which could just mean that I'm building muscle, but the tingling in my strumming hand doesn't seem normal or healthy, and I'm worried about developing shoulder pain in the future.

Has anyone else had a similar experience switching to a dreadnought from a smaller guitar? If so, were you able to adjust after a few weeks or months, or did you give up and switch back?

Note: For reference, the Guild D20 has a depth of 5" and width of 16" at the lower bout (making it slightly bigger than Martin dreadnoughts). My Martin 000, by contrast, is 4 1/8" x 15".

A lot of guitar playing discomfort can be associated with age, medical problems, how long you play the guitar each time or inexperience. A lot of these problems, except for age, can possibly be resolved over time with more practice. I'm 74 and mostly only play dreadnoughts and jumbo size guitars. I have 3 Guild dreadnoughts amongst other mostly larger sized guitars. Most of my playing is about 1/2 to 1 hour per day and I am fortunate to not have any problems with playing guitars of that size for that period of time. I am also 5'10" tall and do my practicing while sitting on a stool that is 15" tall. Maybe I'm just used to it after many years.

[DrewStrummer]

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

My shoulder doesn't allow me to tolerate dreads for more than a few songs, and it's no better with a J-45. Standing up, it's more comfortable, especially in the "Dylan position" (see pic).

Johnny Cash held his Ds the same way.

[shekie]

Originally Posted by morningside

I've been playing a Martin 000 for several years, and just bought a Guild D20, which is a relatively large dreadnought (see measurements below). It sounds great, and the neck is comfortable, but I'm having issues with the body size. I'm not small (5'10"), but my right (strumming) arm gets tired quickly, and my right pinkie and ring finger start to tingle after I've been playing for 20-30 minutes. It feels like my right elbow is very far from my torso and the soundhole. I've mostly been playing seated, and have tried a number of different positions to get comfortable (including classical), but nothing has fixed the problem yet.

When I tried the D20 before buying it, I could feel a slight strain getting my right arm around the lower bout, but I assumed I'd quickly adjust. Now, after playing it regularly for a week, I'm concerned that a dreadnought body may not work for me. My right arm is sore, which could just mean that I'm building muscle, but the tingling in my strumming hand doesn't seem normal or healthy, and I'm worried about developing shoulder pain in the future.

Has anyone else had a similar experience switching to a dreadnought from a smaller guitar? If so, were you able to adjust after a few weeks or months, or did you give up and switch back?

Note: For reference, the Guild D20 has a depth of 5" and width of 16" at the lower bout (making it slightly bigger than Martin dreadnoughts). My Martin 000, by contrast, is 4 1/8" x 15".

My experience is somewhat similar to yours. When I first started back playing after a 38 year layoff, I was singleminded in wanting a dread, as that is what I played back in my 20's. I also played mostly standing up back then with a strap and I don't recall any of feeling discomfort. But, I'm no longer in my 20's.

After struggling with a beautiful sounding but uncomfortable Martin dreadnought for well over a year, I finally conceded to age and traded it for an OM. I've given up some bass and volume but I've gained the ability to practice and play comfortably for a lot longer than I can on a dread. I've also turned my attention toward more of a fingerpicking style of playing, something my OM with its balanced sound and mid-range projection really excels at. That being said, a long scale good quality OM can hold its own in an ensemble unless you're competing with fiddles and banjos in a bluegrass setting.

I would be lying if I said I never miss that big bass dreadnought sound, but I sure don't miss the discomfort. Regarding any tingling in your fingers of your right hand, I don't think it is any cause for concern, I experienced the same playing the dread and I believe it was simply reduced blood supply as a result of the awkward positioning of the right arm around the larger body.