Picking chords on a 12-string, high G makes me confused...

[andrus108]

I bought my first 12-string couple of months, and I struggle with picking chord patterns. If it's just going up and down I can get by with just focusing on physical movement. But if it's more involved, then G string sounding higher than B and high E throw me off. Just a matter of practice, or wrong tool for the job?

[The Bard Rocks]

Interesting. I have never experienced this and my guess is that your hearing is sensitive to octave notes and hears them as different which then translates to your fingers. And if that is correct, then it is slightly surprising that the bass notes (which are also in octaves) does not further confuse you.

Your right hand picking pattern should eventually become automatic, something you do not need to think about or concentrate on when playing. Have you advanced this far? If you have, then I would be further surprised. If not, bear with it, keep practicing (maybe on a 6 string for now?): your right hand fingers should get to the point where they just do their thing and you do not need to concentrate any listening on what they are doing.

[egordon99]

Yeah, I have absolutely no problem flatpicking my 12 compared my six strings. You just have to "pick" strongly enough to get both strings to sound.

Now fingerpicking my 12-string is a different story. Lol.

How long have you been playing guitar?

[donlyn]

Picking chords on a 12-string, high G makes me confused...

Originally Posted by andrus108

I bought my first 12-string couple of months, and I struggle with picking chord patterns. If it's just going up and down I can get by with just focusing on physical movement. But if it's more involved, then G string sounding higher than B and high E throw me off. Just a matter of practice, or wrong tool for the job?

The pitch of the octave G string is higher than both the B and E treble strings. So there is basically nothing wrong with that.

Are you using a flat pick or do you fingerpick? If you are flatpicking, you might try to hit the 'gG' course with an upward motion, thus catching the octave 'g' slightly and immediately after the main 'G' string.

If you are fingerpicking, the 'gG' course is normally played with the index finger in an upward motion and will accomplish just that. Contacting the octave string second changes the sound a wee bit.

I fingerpick using my nails as picks, and sometimes I will override the index finger and play the 'gG' course with my thumb in a downward motion to get the octave to ring out first. Depends on the song, but usually involves hitting consecutive and/or multiple notes on the 'gG' course.

Don
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[andrus108]

I use a pick, and I have been playing the same thing on a 6 string with no issues.

I do play on guitars, mostly electric though, and some bass for a few years now. 12 string feels like a bigger challenge than I thought....

[DavidE]

Some would argue that the high g IS the sound of the 12 string. In fact, the CF Martin Roger McGuinn 7 string only adds the octave g string.

[Steve DeRosa]

PSA: If the octave G sounds out of balance to you, as long as your guitar is in good shape you can do a certain amount of experimentation with gauges - assuming your set uses the usual .009, a .008 or even a .007 might be just what you need...

[Misifus]

Perhaps I'm flogging the proverbial deceased cayuse, but the "G" string pair on a twelve, has the main string and an octave string with it. The "B" and "E" pairs do not. They are simply the same string twice. Therefore, the G octave string IS higher than the high E. It's the nature of the beast.

[b1j]

I play around with typical six-string finger picking patterns with my Nashville-strung guitar, and I also find I need to retrain my ears for that high G. But that’s just what it is.

[Coler]

Originally Posted by andrus108

I bought my first 12-string couple of months, and I struggle with picking chord patterns. If it's just going up and down I can get by with just focusing on physical movement. But if it's more involved, then G string sounding higher than B and high E throw me off. Just a matter of practice, or wrong tool for the job?

Hi Andrus,

What's happening is probably that you are using thumb on the bass, striking down, and fingers on the treble strings including G, picking up. The order the strings are played in is different on the G because you strike 'up'.

It's confusing on the ears until you get used to it especially in fingerpicking patterns.

Some players reverse the order of the strings on the G to deal with it. I think it's part of the 12 string sound/charm. If you want to reverse the order of the strings permanently you would need a new nut cut for the guitar but you can try it out without the need for this and see if you like it.

[TBman]

Take the octave G string off (the higher one). No one will miss it and your playing enjoyment will be enhanced.

[The Watchman]

Agree with TBman. Take it off. Mine will break often enough on its own.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by TBman

Take the octave G string off (the higher one). No one will miss it and your playing enjoyment will be enhanced.

andrus108,

More importantly, you may not miss it. And if it helps you to get to know the guitar, so much the better. You can always try adding it on again later; you might feel better about it. Most of any potential audience won't notice it missing either.

Another player might, but if that annoys you, just mention you are experimenting with your sound.

On a personal level, I would not play an 11 string guitar unless I broke the octave G in mid-set. (Never did that, but it might pay to be prepared.)

Someone mentioned previously that Roger McGuinn has a custom 7 string, with an octave 'g' string added.

'Spider' John Koerner was a folkie in the 60s (and beyond) who modified his six string by adding an octave 'g' also. Believe he is still playing out. I think he's from the mid-west, maybe Minnesota? Saw him a few times back in the day at the Club 47 in Cambridge, MA.

Don
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[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

...Take it off. Mine will break often enough on its own.

Had the same problem, constantly breaking .009 G-octaves - went to an .010 (standard issue in the old Westerly-era Guild 12-string sets BTW), bring it up to pitch s-l-o-w-l-y, and once it settles in I haven't had any breakages since...

[andrus108]

Wouldn't taking of the high G result in moving the problem downstream, as in I would then get confused when picking through octave D 'down' to regular G?

I think my main issue at the moment is that my picking is very imprecise, I don't always hit both strings, and I only hear the octave part and not the fundamental when down-picking. So that needs fixing as the first step...

I like the idea with a thinner octave G. Supposedly now it's strung with 10s from Martin, not sure which set because that's the info I got from a seller, but if true it would make octave G 10 gauge as well. My next set would be 9-45 from D'addario, which has an 8 in that slot.